I agree with Someonerandm here. Every government has secrets, they’re required. You don’t think your governments torture people for information or imprison people on false charges when they need to? Idealists that expect to know everything don’t understand that the government needs to have its secrets so it can operate without interruption. Take Guantanamo Bay for example, we know the government imprisoned people who they didn’t have proof of being terrorists there, it was a necessity to stop any possible harm done to the country though. In my opinion, it shouldn’t be closed.
The government does things we don’t want to do or hear about so we can live our lives the way they are now. Deal with it, or if you really want to change the government so much, get involved in it.
What if the “secret” is a person in government violating the law? Should the mere fact that it’s been labeled “secret” make that person in government above the law?
Also, I need money. Lots of money. I’mma go steal someone’s identity and take out a loan in their name. It’s a necessity, right?
I didn’t read any of the leaks, but I’m going to assume those are two of the things leaked. You don’t think presidents or world leaders violate the law? Of course they do, I’m fine with that, I understand it’s required and allow my government to do its job rather than question its every move and attempt to expose everything they do that I dislike. And what’s the second one have to do with government?
I think he’s saying that a government doing something illegally to ensure it’s safety/stability is comparable to an individual doing something illegal to ensure his or her safety or stability.
FYI there are hundreds of leaks in there although most are uneventful and not of much importance but there are still more than two.
I don’t intend to offend you, but you are sounding pretty much like a lawyer. You don’t seem interested in the problems, but only in the “theory”. That is, you don’t seem to be analyzing the problem as a human being, but instead you are using a set of theories based mainly on the idea that the people must obey the law at all costs, to remain obedient, not to cause confusion or embarrassment to the governments.
Well, this reminds me of Gandhi. If you think being a good person has anything to do with following the laws and the rules, I suggest that you learn about him. There is a movie about his life.
The people are not satisfied. I don’t mean dumb, uninformed people, but smart people. The world has voted for Assange and there are thousands of people helping with the coordinated attacks.
All that is happening now is showing how power and control is a gift of the people. The people has the ability to give power and to take it away. The USA and other big organizations are hiding too much information and we don’t like it. So, either those guys up there find a way to let things flow more transparently, or they will have to fight this war endlessly. But there is no way for them to win. Not if we stand in their way.
So, here is the message: we have given our vote and we won’t take it back. It’s as simple as that.
Do you deny that there are necessities in the world? Do you deny that we can’t all just live in a happy fun society in which there are no secrets, no evil people, and no need for government?
Also, what if a document is leaked that reveal a key security flaw and terrorists exploit it to kill thousands? We can shoot hypotheticals back and forth all day, but in the end, we cannot have a perfect system that accounts for all possibilities in a manner you consider fair. The law will arrest a man who murders the murderer of his family. Is that entirely fair? No. Is it necessary so that such an excuse cannot cover an unjustified murder? Yes.
Also, you’ll find the world has not voted for Assange. The people you talk to, maybe, the couple thousand DDoSing sites, maybe, but overall, the world is not the idealist place you believe it to be.
Guy, I don’t know if you noticed but people are losing their jobs for browsing wikileaks, companies are pulling out of giving services to the site and people are becoming examples to keep everyone in line. No one is getting out of their chair right now, people are too scared and complacent to.
The SHIELD legislation is planning on passing a law that lets them charge anyone who browses sites they deem treasonous with treason themselves, they’ve already unanimously given the president the ability to seize servers databases no matter the country, this new law is expected to pass unanimously as well.
But to be quite honest, at the end of the day my world doesn’t reach the government as long as I have a hot cup of coffee in my hand and my entertainment keeping me distracted like too many others. These laws are supposed necessities to keep our stability and quite a few are fine with that and perhaps me too.
Oh brother. You’re over in another thread complaining about absolutism, and here you are spouting it off for your own purposes. So if there ARE necessities in the world then they MUST pertain to the illegal murders of civilians. There are evil people, therefore there is collateral.
I’d rather be considered delusional than detached from my common sense. You break the law, you pay the price. That’s what you’re advocating, yet when I try and apply it to government they seem to have impunity. Your hypocrisy speaks volumes. Not to mention, as I’ve said before, there is no legal precedent for what they’re doing to Assange.
In criminal law, everything is about precedent. A precedent was set when we suspended the rights of Americans to a fair trial by a jury of their peers. A precedent was set when the President authorized phone taps that invaded the privacy of law abiding citizens. A precedent was set when you stopped being able to fly across the country without being photographed practically naked. I don’t want one set that says the world in which I live doesn’t have freedom of the press. I suppose you’d just have kept Watergate a secret too and just let that run it’s course in the dark. Those terrorist televised news agencies, curse them. Right?
Yeah, but the few people that is not scared and complacent is already making enough noise. If they start a witch hunt to get all of those, then other people will see the injustice and more people will get up from their chairs.
When Gandhi began his fight, there were just a few dozens of people burning their documents. That alone already affected England, made them angry. England was torturing, arresting and killing its enemies. You think people were not scared back them? That the government of England was not creating laws to sabotage the movement? Some soldiers even murdered a lot of Indians in one occasion. But did the revolution stop because of that? No, every time England made a movement, the Indian people would get more dissatisfied and the movement would gain more power.
One very important thing, however, was that no violence was used. If a war started, England soldiers would have excuses to fight back and kill with all their military power, and that would overwhelm India as they did not have enough power to fight back. In a pacific battle, the side that is fighting at all costs when it comes to moral and ethics is clearly seen as the unfair by everyone. The other side, that only takes the damage without inflicting it, is seen by people as fighting for a just cause.
The key that gave India the victory of that battle was the simple fact that 100 thousand England soldier could not control hundreds of millions of citizens. I believe that is the case now. I don’t care about the people that are not helping. I care much more about about the fact that only a few is fighting and the big guys are not being able to contain it already, they are already taking desperate measures.
This is the perfect time and situation for the world to learn the lesson about whose is the power.
Assage’s Lawyer said himself that the information in the insurance.aes256 document
personally i think its about the new world order, or maybe something about aliens or whatnot. Or maybe something like we order Kennedy’s assasination or maybe Lincolns. Or maybe its a full scan of the presidents secret book. Either way, the information in that file would
Assage’s lawyer
anyways if anyone wants to download said file google “insurance.aes256”
You act as if prosecuting those who openly leak and publish secrets means that no secrets will be leaked. Take watergate for instance. In the modern age, deep throat could have easily uploaded the documents onto the internet, and disappeared without a trace. As I’ve said before, I have no real issue with people leaking documents of criminal activity, unless they begin to turn themselves into icons of idealists who honestly believe that government should be completely open. That is where problems begin, as people begin to leak things for the sake of idealistic truth, not for justice. I’ll note that I said the exact same thing a page back. It pays to pay attension.
As to your really intellectual question Daniel, here’s the different. Your life affects no one, the governments diplomatic life affects millions, maybe even billions.
Finally, it would be the greatest thing ever if that insurance file turned out to be a rickroll.
How do you suggest we control secrets then? Democracy doesn’t work, and you seem to think elected officials will use the for personal gain. So how? Allowing wide spread things like wiki leaks doesn’t work, because he just releases everything, including that which does need to be kept secret. The best system is the present one. Through anonymity, people can leak secrets that they feel will show a politician to be breaking the law. By doing so anonymously, they make it so that resources must be put into finding them. If the documents they release hurt the nation, the people will support this. If they expose corruption, they will not. As such, it is a far better system than the one you seem to advocate. This is the third time I’ve said this.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
