US Health Care Bill!

[Someonerandm]

Huh? What’s wrong with that? She’s just expressing concern that our current socialist-commie-nazi Hitler worshiper is going to kill her baby. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I hate Sarah Palin.

[mattemuse]

there’s nothing “wrong” about it, it’s highly entertaining gibberish - Palin truly has a talent for it.

[Someonerandm]

And thus my hatred for her. Why does that attract normally reasonable people? I know several people who are entirely logical in political discussions who consider her to be the republicans only hope. Oh well, I already lost faith in the republican party with texas textbook thing, religious idiots, which puts me in the situation of not supporting anyone in Washington. Oh well, life goes on.

[Mr_Someguy]

To be honest I don’t see why we can’t just copy what the UK has.

[Hammich]

@Someonerandm

And thus my hatred for her. Why does that attract normally reasonable people?

well she is pretty hot for her age

[Bolteh]

@Solokiller

I wasn’t talking about you, i was talking about my coordinator. It’s not like we had a choice either, it’s the only school that has game design, so they have a monopoly on it in Belgium anyway.

I must say that I find it rather ironic that you dare to claim that I “fail to see the big picture”, while you’re using one monopolizing school in the entire country as an example.

Higher education in Belgium is amazingly cheap[COLOR=‘Red’].[/SIZE]

@Ballsopt

because obama

the fact that he’s president is literally driving republicans insane

I’m still surprised to this date that Obama got elected. A man who preached “change” got elected by a people that fear the mere thought of change.

This one person made a comment on the CNN website (regarding an article about 10 states filing a lawsuit once Obama signs the bill). It feels like he’s one of the few that seems to get it.

Ben Franklin might note:“A stitch in time saves nine.”
We have let our healthcare unravel for so long that we are paying much more for reforms than we did before. We have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and yet have far less to show for it than other developed nations. The waste in the current system is extreme and yet there are many who would rather stay on the sinking gilded ship than move to a more plain ship that is floating securely.

[JohnKiller118]

@Hammich

well she is pretty hot for her age

[FireTime]

I give it a 25% chance we have another civil war.

[JohnKiller118]

@mattemuse

there’s nothing “wrong” about it, it’s highly entertaining gibberish

Except people actually believe that gibberish!
You didn’t hear much about “death panels” or “pulling plugs on grandma” until she made that Facebook post.

[Solokiller]

I thought that was how things were being done all over the planet today, you stand, sit, walk and run in this place called school where they decide whether or not you’re worth having a good life or not.

[JeffMOD]

@Mr. Someguy

To be honest I don’t see why we can’t just copy what the UK has.

This. Prescriptions are the only thing that come out of your pocket personally, and they all cost a base price regardless of what they are and how much you’re getting.

@FireTime

I give it a 25% chance we have another civil war.

And of course, the rest of the world would have to clean it up. :fffuuu:

[Bolteh]

@JeffMOD

And of course, the rest of the world would have to clean it up. :fffuuu:

The US will look up and shout “save us” and we’ll whisper… “No”.

[mental2k]

@Someonerandm

Because you’re an idiot? Seriously, if that is your view of people who disagree with the president, at least you are ignorant enough to not worry too much about the world.

It was more of a poke at some of the nonsensical arguments used by anti-Obama protesters. Hence I made a facetious nonsense argument in mock. But hey, if you wanna run around waving the idiot stick, go right on ahead.

[danielsangeo]

There’s a major argument from the anti-bill people that, on the surface, sounds reasonable, but if you dig under the surface, doesn’t make sense.

That argument is: “The government is forcing you to buy something” as if this was something unprecedented.

It’s not. The common response is “The government forces you to buy car insurance if you drive.” And the response to that is, “But I can choose not to drive.”

That’s kind of silly.

Yes, you CAN choose not to drive but you CAN’T choose to not have health care.

Right now, we’re already paying for everyone (“socialized” health care?) and we’re paying through the nose with very little to show for it. I don’t know about the anti-bill people, but I’d rather pay less for more.

[Rossman]

@Bolteh

The US will look up and shout “save us” and we’ll whisper… “No”.

We don’t need your help, cause we have guns. Guns solve everthing.

[COLOR=‘2222222’]Sarcasm

[DansonDelta40]

@Bolteh

The US will look up and shout “save us” and we’ll whisper… “No”.

And then they’ll bomb us to hell. Great plan.

[CatzEyes93]

I just got an email from our local chamber of commerce that I thought I would post for those that dont have the details of the bill. This offers a much easier to understand timeline of the bill.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – March 21, 2010 Contact: Blair Latoff 202-463-5682

U.S. Chamber Statement on House Health Care Vote

WASHINGTON, D.C.—U.S. Chamber of Commerce President and CEO Thomas J. Donohue issued the following statement on passage of the health care bill:

“The House made a wrong and unfortunate decision that ignores the will of the American people.

“Americans will not be fooled. This $900 billion, 2800 page bill is not health care reform. It fails to fix what is broken and risks breaking what already works. It will drive up health care costs and make coverage less affordable for businesses and families. It marks a major step down the road to a government-run health care system. It will further expand entitlements and explode the deficit, and raises taxes by a half a trillion dollars at the worst possible time. American jobs and growth are at risk thanks to the decision by the House today.

“Should the legislation passed by the House today become law, the Chamber will work through all available avenues—regulatory, legislative, legal, and political—to fix its flaws and minimize its potentially harmful impacts. Through the largest issue advocacy and voter education program in our history, we will encourage citizens to hold their elected officials accountable when they choose a new Congress this November.

“The business community is strongly committed to providing quality health care to its employees. While today’s decision will make that task more difficult and expensive, businesses and the Chamber will continue to promote reform that curbs costs, improves wellness, reins in frivolous lawsuits, expands consumer choice, and removes the inefficient heavy hand of government from decisions that should only be made by doctors and patients. We are prepared to work with the administration, Congress, governors, companies and their employees, and the medical community on real health care reform that improves quality, choice, and access for all Americans.”

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is the world’s largest business federation representing the interests of more than 3 million businesses of all sizes, sectors, and regions, as well as state and local chambers and industry associations.

---

The Wall Street Journal
March 22, 2010

WHAT’s IN THE BILL
The $940 billion health-care overhaul will take nearly a decade to roll out in full. A look at the key parts of the bill and when they go into effect.

2010 Coverage
 Subsidies begin for small businesses to provide coverage to employees.
 Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to children with pre-existing illness.
 Children permitted to stay on their parents’ insurance policies until their 26th birthday.

2011 Coverage
 Set up long-term care program under which people pay premiums into system for at least five years and become eligible for support payments if they need assistance in daily living.
Taxes and fees
 Drug makers face annual fee of $2.5 billion (rises in subsequent years).

2013 Taxes and fees
 New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
 Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
 New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
 Excise tax of 2.9% imposed on sale of medical devices.
Cost control
 Medicare pilot program begins to test bundled payments for care, in a bid to pay for quality rather than quantity of services.

2013 Coverage
 Create exchanges where people without employer coverage, as well as small businesses, can shop for health coverage. Insurance companies barred from denying coverage to anyone with pre-existing illness.
 Requirement begins for most people to have health insurance. Subsidies begin for lower and middle-income people. People at 133% of federal poverty level pay maximum of 3% of income for coverage. People at 400% of poverty level pay up to 9.5% of income. (Poverty level currently is about $22,000 for a family of four.)
 Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor, expands to all Americans with income up to 133% of federal poverty level.
 Subsidies for small businesses to provide coverage increase. Businesses with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000 receive tax credit of up to 50% of employer’s contribution. Tax credits phase out for larger businesses.
Taxes and fees
 Employers with more than 50 employees that don’t provide affordable coverage must pay a fine if employees receive tax credits to buy insurance. Fine is up to $3,000 per employee, excluding first 30 employees.
 Insurance industry must pay annual fee of $8 billion (rises in subsequent years).
Cost control
 Independent Medicare board must begin to submit recommendations to curb Medicare spending, if costs are rising faster than inflation.

2016 Taxs and fees
 Penalty for those who don’t carry coverage rises to 2.5% of taxable income or $695, whichever is greater.

2017 Coverage
 Businesses with more than 100 employees can buy coverage on insurance exchanges, if state permits it.

2018 Taxes and fees
 Excise tax of 40% imposed on health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individual coverage and $27,500 for family coverage.

—Sources: House bill; Kaiser Family Foundation

[mattemuse]

No comment on the responses to the questions you asked, Catzeyes? Just going to copypaste the right-wing COC’s boilerplate chain-email into this thread, eh?

The COC has been spending hundreds of thousands of dollars paying off Republicans to fail to kill the bill, they are supposed to be an impartial source on what’s in it? Is their “timeline” based on the House bill as the email claims? Or the Senate bill, which is what actually got voted on?

Here’s something interesting. It’s a “calculator” that will tell you exactly how the bill affects you.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/?nav=most_emailed

[CatzEyes93]

No I am not going to engage in debate as it has only one unfavorable outcome. No matter what I say, you will not agree and will offer up your own snide conjecture. And no matter what you say, I will not agree and will only offer up my own snide conjecture.

I choose to not play the game.

[mattemuse]

So all your direct questions to me were rhetorical? I’ll remember that in the future. The unfavorable outcome is that everyone gets to see which position has the facts on it’s side; I explained this in another thread (talking about economics):

@mattemuse

People who believe strongly enough to argue for their preferred position are always going to be a minority. What allowing the argument to play out achieves, even if there is never reconciliation between the two sides, is that the silent majority (that don’t have a strong enough opinion to debate) get to see which position makes a stronger case.

This is probably why you see those with controversial views in this thread simply declare their position as fact and then refuse to defend it when questioned. By sidestepping the argument entirely, they avoid allowing the majority to judge whether or not they have any facts on their side.

YMMV, I thought it was deep. I might add that refusing to argue can actually convince people that you’re right, just based on the strength of your convictions.

I’m curious, what does the Washington Post health care calculator predict about your health care under this plan?