Well, IGN’s review was a pretty big waste to read. Half of it the reviewer was basically attacking Duke for being so immature and how he hasn’t changed, which we all knew how he was ever since 3D, and the rest he complains about the game having things like puzzles, which apparently worked in 2004, but not now.
Seems like the only parts of the game he liked were the shooting, and he actually praises the multiplayer for its Quake/UT derivative gameplay and strategies.
My God, a war game where you play as someone who has to take orders? Nobody ever has to follow orders in the military!
I’m going to avoid a cliche here and just say that there’s no comparing Half-Life and Call of Duty.
The doom games and its clones from the 90’s had no real story and sense of logical progression and, in fact, they were nothing more than the level designers showing off their mapping skills. That’s why all the maps were just a collection of small labyrinths and key-based puzzles with a lot of backtracking.
Hell, some of the levels in Doom 2 were clearly just the mappers waving off their dicks to the world.
I wasnt comparing them… i was obviously showing the differences.
Even though you “follow orders”… there might as well be huge arrows pointing to where you have to go … thats how obvious the linearity of cod is…
Speaking of FPS mapping dick-waving, there are 2 levels in Duke Nukem 3D Atomic Edition that are impossible to do in modern First person shooters that basically loop twice without the 1 loop being part of the other or being a helix.
Funny, I thought some of the levels in Doom 2 were showing off the mappers poor design skills.
Seriously, Doom 1 was full of weird mapping (which was normal for the time), but at least it looked like a military base, or hell and had a good flow to them. In Doom 2 Some of the levels make so little sense and are so poorly constructed I have no idea why they even put them in the game, aside from being filler.
Seriously, I just played Doom 1 and 2 coop and I couldn’t believe some of the levels in doom 2, some were normal, but others looked like 10 minutes work.
Ummm, apparently you misread my post, because no where did I COMPARE anything…I simply mentioned if DNF wanted a throwback feel they had to make it less linear and return to a more open world style. Back tracking and searching were necessary in Duke Nukem 3D and most 90’s FPS, Half Life excluded which is one reason it was so groundbreaking and awesome; linear and incredibly immersive at the same time. Remember, HL is basically one GIANT level broken up by load times only.
Some of you people need to pay more attention to what people post and not jump to conclusions. I never said one style was better than any another, its all about implementation…and being “done right.”
All I know is that from what I have read, overall Duke Nukem Forever sucks ass, perhaps because they removed, IMO, one of the most interesting things of the 90’s era FPS…level design. I get the impression that the ONLY old-school characteristic retained in DNF is the combat and this just wont work in an overly-linear style, unless its balls-to-the-wall like Serious Sam. DNF’s Easy combat + linear levels + boring platforming and puzzles = complete shit. With an open world design, at least there’s a chance you could find fun in exploring the levels and avoiding ambushes in uncharted areas. With DNF it seems like you can basically sleep-walk your way through the levels due to the easier combat and puzzles. Oh, and who thought regenerating health and only 2 weapons at a time was a great idea? Oh thats right they were trying to “update” Duke, I forgot.
All I am saying is that the combination of features in DNF seems bad and may not mix well. I will have to wait until I play it to decide.
You posted an image exclusively used by idiots who claim level design was better in the 90s than in the modern day. What do you think we are going to assume about you?
I assumed people here still read posts and can comprehend simple English. I posted words with that image, maybe if you actually read them and didn’t just ASSUME you would have understood what I was saying. Fail on your part.
This isn’t the first time either, anytime you assume someone is comparing 90’s FPS to modern shooters you immediately go off the deep end without actually thinking. Take a deep breath, relax, and pause for a minute…then write your response. Oh and don’t forget to actually read posts to which you are responding, that’s kind of important. :retard:
Your post’s wording was neutral, the image was negative, so it made your post overall negative and open to criticism.
Anyway, pirated the game, its pretty tedious and dull, nothing special, as expected. I can happily forget this one. Admittedly I only played the first hour or so, but I’m not sticking with it. I have better things to do.
Pffft, excuses. Language is not like math, so its not that simple. You fail again.
You said it yourself, my wording was neutral so my post should be perceived as such, the image simply emphasized the general inability to explore an entire modern FPS map, due to the fact that in most linear games today you are interrupted by cut scenes and cannot backtrack. Its not my fault you perceived that image as negative and extrapolated it to my entire post, perhaps you shouldn’t do that in the future.
It appears that you’re just easily excited by perceived criticism to what you think is better. In fact there really isn’t an argument (old FPS vs. new FPS) to begin with, its simply an evolution of games in general. I don’t understand why you are so sensitive when the topic arises (there shouldn’t be comparisons anyway), but this isn’t the first time it’s happened.
Both designs have their merits and should be combined.
I also plan to pirate the game and give it a shot. My expectations are well below satisfaction, but I am curious to see the result of 12 years worth of “work.” I also heard the beginning of the game is particularly bad, so I plan on playing through more than the first hour. Again, my expectations are still low.
I was hoping for more exploration with DNF, so far its sounds rather linear.
It’s incredibly linear, almost to the point of CoD. The post-process effects make everything more than 5 feet away from you incredibly blurry.
Also, apparently most of the content in the game is years old. After having played the game for about 3 or so hours, the most recent pop culture reference is to Halo.
My post was about the image, not what you said. Maybe you should follow your own advice and read the posts.
It’s clear that the problem here is that you don’t know what comparison is. I’ll give you a dictionary definition.
compare - verb - Estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between
I did read and comprehend your post, it was very easy to understand. The problem is you simply followed up Someonerandm’s post with “I agree about the image. It’s damn near impossible to argue that 90’s FPS mapping was better than modern mapping.” That image was posted to show a comparison and not to start an argument, you and Someonerandm took that upon yourselves and that’s what I was pointing out.
There was no need to start a pointless argument about which is “better.” I’ve said it before, both designs have merit and its all about utilization.
Sheesh, quit acting so defensively. My original post about the image was hardly about you. I was commenting on the image itself, which was created by someone who’s trying to send a pretty clear message about what he thinks about game design these days. I still haven’t said anything about your views, because you haven’t said anything worth commenting on or rebutting.
I already established that your post was overall a seeming attack since that image is by its very nature an used as an attack. Why would you include it in a post if you don’t want to attack? No amount of neutral writing would change that.
Lets move on to how terrible this game is.
I think community mapping is probably the pinnacle of level design, not just games from back then.
There were some really nice developer ones, like Hotel Hell from Duke3D or The Dismal Oubliette from Quake, but look at the custom maps for those games, and newer ones too. The originals really have trouble holding up to some of them, especially nowadays, but even back then there were maps like that too.
Sure, a vast majority of them look like a 5 year old bashed the keyboard sometimes, but there are some maps that are simply masterpieces.
I think devs should sometimes look at custom maps for games and see what ones people like, and try to make them similar to those mappers concepts.
The map design isn’t as linear as everyone is making it out to be. The path may be laid out, but there are plenty of areas to explore.
There are also more recent “pop culture” references. I discovered a dead dude with his head ripped off and his head had the mask from the guy on Dead Space. Duke’s comment was “Oh look… another “dead space” marine.”
On another note, I don’t know what the fuck is wrong with all these retarded reviewers. It seems like they have some kind of “modern shooter silver spoon” shoved so far up their ass that they can’t see a good game if it was beating it’s hard meaty dick right into their face.
I’m enjoying this game a lot. It’s stupid, juvenile, and down right disgusting at times. I wouldn’t expect anything less from the Duke.
Its good to hear that there are areas to explore, I’m still looking forward to giving it a playthrough.
And I already established that you overreacted for no reason. I certainly did not think people would take it as an attack because it’s JUST a picture, I wrote nothing inflammatory, and we are only talking about game design. Why get upset over that, is FPS game design that personal of a subject for you? Bottom line: you were wrong for assuming I was attacking anything. End of story.
Why did I include that picture? I just wanted to discuss a general change in level design over the past ~20 years and that picture attempts to illustrate it. My writing clearly put that image into the proper context for this discussion, that’s what writing does and that’s why its important to read/comprehend.
Just stop responding to me. There is no reason to continue this.
So yea, about DNF…has anyone modded it so you can carry more than one weapon? Surely it cant be that difficult to do.
That’s good to hear. Of course I still have to play it for myself and formulate my own opinion, From the demo’s level design I didn’t really think it was as super linear as a lot of people say, unless the demo really is that misleading.
Although I have to say, even though I liked the demo and no matter how the game is, whoever made the 2 weapon limit decision for this game should be fucking shot. I really dislike it. I only find it bearable because you can carry pipebombs and tripwires seperately, effectively making it a disguised “4” limit instead of 2.
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