No, I don’t see any reason for a higher being to exist.
No, you’re not going to be able to skirt this. I refuse to talk about the origins of life until you answer the question:
Despite the preponderance of the evidence, why do you believe that humans did not come from a common ancestor?
Do not try to dance around the question by introducing irrelevancies and red herrings. We’re talking about humans and humans alone and their common ancestor, not the origins of all life over a billion years ago. Let’s keep it recent. Let’s keep it to humans and their common ancestors.
If you’d like to talk about the origins of life, I’m happy to discuss it…after you answer the question that has been posed to you many times.
I believe the Qu’ran states that man was a special creation by god, or something, and that’s why we’re an exception. At least that’s what Shadi said.
Even though Shadi claimed that the Qur’an demands Muslims to learn and educate themselves and others and that all the evidence points to man being “just another animal”, regardless of how humans take that?
Burbinator answered your question for me, I told you 4 times already that we can believe in science but to an extent, now if I believed that Humans evolved from another early animal then I am no longer believing in the Qur’an and therefor am no longer a Muslim got it? I just don’t get it why do you like to call your self “oh yea we are just another evolved Animal”, why do you defend someone who committed something wrong and say : he’s just following his animal instinct ?
edit: please keep this in your mind
Christ this thread exploded in my absence!
You’re missing the point. Why should there be a purpose? In my opinion there really isn’t one. You say that a completely coincidental event absent of any deliberate cause needs to have a purpose?
I’d just like to point out that I don’t believe that a deity is behind it all, just saying that nobody knows who or what is behind it all, could be the big bang, could be a deity, could be a smurf having intercourse with a squirrel, nobody knows, not you, not me, not the scientists, not the pope. Simply because there’s no evidence (yet).
I said something regarding this in some other thread (I think it was the Anarchist thread), but I’ll repeat it here.
Centuries of cultural evolution (and yes, that includes religion) has suppressed our animal instincts (territorial, intolerant, greedy, etc) to the point where we can form societies that we like to call “civilization”. To achieve these societies, man (mainly under the pressure of religion) has formed certain rules that people must abide.
Because of these rules (“the law”), our animal instinct remains suppressed. However, the instinct lingers (just like how that instinct still lingers in domesticated dogs and cats), and it can raise it’s primitive head if the situation calls for it. When this happens, you get people murdering, plundering, raping (hey, dolphins rape too), breaking the law.
At this point, the cultural evolution (the law) has taught us that we shouldn’t tolerate that behavior and should make sure that the “animal” in question is controlled/retained.
So to answer your question: you shouldn’t defend someone that committed a murder, because our laws say that murderers are bad people, but they still acting according to their instinct.
Oh and before you say anything, murderers aren’t a typical human phenomena, they appear in the wild as well. Pretty sure you’ve heard stories and tales of renegade wolves, tigers, mountain lions, alligators, apes, bears, sharks, etc.
Human evolution and the Qur’an aren’t in conflict, though. Allah could’ve guided us to where we are today, using natural evolution as a tool.
Because we’re an evolved animal?
Sorry, but I thought that the Qur’an told Muslims to educate yourself and others. I was simply doing what you said the Qur’an demanded.
there are thousands of other interesting subjects besides Human Evolution, the Galaxy, finding cures for deadly diseases…you know the rest.
How is that an answer?
You’re just flat out not answering anything anymore Shadi.
am not answering…
am just…tired of this, none of you are even willing to listen, look in the past pages of this thread and you’ll know why. now I told you before, you people think that you know everything and we on the other hand are just ignorant, no you don’t know everything. the thing is you can’t deny something that you don’t understand or never heard of can you ?
for me, No am not a professor in Oxford University, but all I can tell you that I don’t believe in Human evolution : at least the way you guys are explaining. if you tell me that Lizards and some Birds are descendants of Dinosaurs I’ll believe you, if you tell me that AIDS is a Virus that destroy Immunity I’ll believe you. you get the Idea.
But there’s an equal amount of evidence that shows that humans and apes have a common ancestor, as for Lizards and Birds being descendants of dinosaurs or AIDS destroying the immunity system.
So why would the evidence of human evolution be less true than the evidence of the dinosaur-bird-lizard-ancestry or AIDS-badness?
Then what was the point in saying it?
It’s not that we aren’t listening, it’s that you’re not saying anything relevant to the discussion, or just not answering questions.
The fact that you’re getting so defensive is just plain sad: we haven’t been derisive or offensive, we’re just asking the same question over and over and you haven’t really answered it.
How can the Qur’an say you should learn as much as you possibly can if it also contradicts something with so much evidence?
This part I found very interesting. Which part, or parts, of our explanation do you find unsatisfactory, so we can explain it better?
I’ll try to recapitulate for everyone here:
Shadi’s view is thus: the Qur’an tells him to educate himself and follow science, and so on. However, the Qur’an also tells him man was a special creation by god. Since god’s word is always more trustworthy, and always true (or something), it must be true, and therefore man cannot have evolved from animals, despite what humans discover.
I suggest we drop this particular point now, as it’s pretty clear he’s not going to change his mind, and we should respect his beliefs, despite what we think of them.
It’s not that we don’t respect his beliefs, far from it, it’s that we can’t understand how he deals with that conflict.
It’s not a conflict in his mind. The word of god supersedes everything else, and is the ultimate truth. If he interprets the Qur’an to say that man did not evolve from other lifeforms, then that is the truth to him.
Ah, I understand.
Doublethink.
i c wat u did thar