You act like all republicans have not done their homework. Great conjecture folks, but you have blinders on if you think all republicans are some hick idiots as seen on YouTube.
No, the republicans just know that nothing is as it seems in washington, that is all. There have been so many back door handshakes going on that no one knows for sure what exactly this is going to do.
Here is one example that I am not trusting. Obama said that if the opposers sign the bill, he will immediately sign an executive order stating government funds will not be used for abortions. Knowing full well that once this monster bill is launched, it will not be stopped. It is like redirecting the titanic. On the other hand, an executive order can EASILY overturned. EASILY. Whether you are for or against the actual order, dont you find it suspicious in the first place that it was set up this way? Who wants to make the bet that this particular executive order will eventually and quietly go away? anyone wanna take that bet? It wont be the first time Obama said one thing and a different thing happend.
Or how about the cornhuskers kickback? Last I heard this is no longer in place (I have not done my homework in the last week) but it is an example of some of the other closed door preferential line items that were pushed in that the general public is probably not aware of.
Like $300 million in extra aid for Louisiana
Like the 100 million going specifically for a public hospital in Connecticut
Like the extra money for hospitals and doctors in North and South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming
Like the additional $8.5 billion to help pay for the more generous Medicaid assistance to low-income residents. These states are Arizona, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin.
In short I just want to know WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR ALL OF THIS PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT?
Because you’re an idiot? Seriously, if that is your view of people who disagree with the president, at least you are ignorant enough to not worry too much about the world.
About those “closed door preferential line items,” that’s why the bill is going back to the Senate now - to remove them. The Medicaid expansion is going to all the states. That’s allegedly happening sometime this week, so I’ll bump this thread when it does.
The corporations… now wouldn’t that be nice =p
Now so far as I know, the current minimum wage is something shocking in the US at the moment. They can’t take blood from a stone. Iraq was expensive, cutting back on military expenditure in that direction, that’s billions of unallocated federal budget right there.
ofcourse if nothing else they might just borrow more money from China:fffuuu:
Why would government funds be directed to abortions? are they an expensive procedure? is the state of pregnancy defined as an illness or disease?
I understand your trust issues though. They are politicians. Republicans, Democrats, that Nader guy. They ALL got where they are by talking through their hats. You CANNOT get where they do without being a very good lier. But as citizens we have to make do with what we’ve got. Without changing the system, you cannot change the types of people or what it takes people to get to the top.
And hell, the amount of corporate control and string-pulling. Whether the stuff in Zeitgeist holds a candle to the truth or not I’d be scared to live in your country.
When your food products which do not need to be sweetened have corn syrup in them, when the state controls school zoning and what public school institutions you can and cannot send your children to thus giving all schools a continual flow of students whether the school is a good school or not, thus public institutions have no competitive reason to improve their standards, when the teachers union holds so many legal cards to their chest that it takes months, if not years, to weed out a single bad teacher who has been recieving full pay from the state for a lot of nothing and after DAMAGING the education of American children all that time.
Where there are people there are agendas. Where there is a pecking order there are people at the bottom getting fucked over and ignored.
As for myself, I am accustomed to living in a country where affordable, government subsidized (not entirely paid for, depending on your income also) medical care is seen as a fundamental right of a citizen, where the government puts some of it’s treasury towards looking after it’s people. However it extends to what somebody NEEDS… if you want something fancy that goes beyond your need, well you’ll have to pay for that . No government will subsidize a nose job unless it’s the wife of the Brazillian president or something
Ofcourse you’ve looked more into the specifics of the bill than I have as i have no direct stake in this particular debate, as an outsider looking in, the general consensus seems to be that whatever side you support, due to many compromises made, and other key ones, not made… the bill is a piece of ass.
But my opinion would be that government subsidized health care would be a good thing. If your government does it for farmers and corporations (who you think would be able to manage themselves economically), then why not the PEOPLE who need medical care and don’t need to be crippled with insane medical bills?
From your researched and well-presented argument I have no problem with you being a republican supporter. But unfortunately, it seems republican supporters like you generally don’t seem to be the vocal ones and the centre stage is taken by fox news watching bigoted hicks as seen above. I know Ron Paul was very popular with the international political pundits at one point so the Republicans can’t be all bad.
Just your primary grievances about the bill seem like they could be applied to any government decision from a body that seems to hold a lot of information close to it’s chest. Which seems to be what all governments in the western world seem to be doing
You still don’t have me convinced and I highly doubt I have changed your opinion and I sense a pretty ruthless rebuttal or silent treatment coming along but I respect your opinion.
and i think that is the first time I have said that to a republican supporter. Though I usually encounter them as youtube trolls, half of them are probably democrats taking the piss so credit where credit is due
At the very least. You have me convinced that not all Republican supporters are farm vegetables
No where does it say corporations are going to pay for it. No, each state will be required to foot the bill regardless of how they are currently handling tax increases. Colorado by the way has limits on tax increases, so in order for us to comply we will have to cut programs. Oh and that is not even taking into account the part that if I dont do my part and purchase, I will be issued penalties. Yes, that is right. I do not have a choice. Tell me how that is right?
pshaw… Well… ask me again in 4 years how I feel about it and I will tell you if this has helped my life or if it has been a party to making my life more difficult. I for one have yet to be convinced that this is a good thing for me.
I am still waiting for someone in Washington to say “Hey, so what are we gonna do about this record unemployment thing by the way?”
Preventing insurance companies from denying people coverage based on pre-existing conditions is good, right?
If insurance companies can’t deny people coverage based on pre-existing conditions, people can ‘cheat’ and not buy any insurance until they need it. This breaks the system.
Thats why you don’t have a choice. It’s necessary for eliminating the pre-existing condition issue.
Easy: lower the money unemployed people get, so people won’t turn down jobs because they offer less than what they get for sitting around and doing nothing.
Other solution: nuke development countries to hell and back, because that’s where new companies/departments are being opened due to low cost.
I pay about $450 a month to go to a 4 year university and to live on campus. To answer your previous question.
Here are the tuition fees. I am a full time student paying in-state tuition. Though that little “Student Health Care” charge is waived for me as I am still under my parent’s health care plan.
Also, as an Engineering student, according to BSU, I am “More expensive to educate” and I will be charged an extra $500-$1000 per semester starting Fall 2010.
I get no government aid other than maybe $200 per semester from the State, thought I just barely filed my FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid). Hopefully I can get some more money from it, I could really use it.
There’s going to be some improvements to student loans in the health care bill, as well as I believe an extension of how long you can stay on your parents’ health care plan (increased to 25 I think). I’d keep an eye out.
Yeah I have a feeling that we’ll never get any sort of Universal Healthcare. We’ll just have to keep relying on corporations to protect us, despite the fact that the primary goal of a corporation is to make money.
Does that mean I’m covered again?
As of now, I have no health coverage. It dropped the day I turned 18.
The bill hasn’t been signed into law yet (neither the present bill nor the “fix” bill). It’ll be law by the end of the week, then you need to do some research into whether you’re affected by the new law. It’s my understanding that if you meet certain requirements (probably income level) you can be on your parents insurance until age 25.
“Sec. 2301. Insurance Reforms. Extends the prohibition of lifetime limits, prohibition on rescissions, limitations on excessive waiting periods, and a requirement to provide coverage for non-dependent children up to age 26 to all existing health insurance plans starting six months after enactment. For group health plans, prohibits pre-existing condition exclusions in 2014, restricts annual limits beginning six months after enactment, and prohibits them starting in 2014. For coverage of non-dependent children prior to 2014, the requirement on group health plans is limited to those adult children without an employer offer of coverage.”[/size]
We don’t know at this point what’s going to be changed in the final Senate vote, so it’s not 100% certain this is going to be in (Senate Republicans are attempting to make the bill as bad as possible, including keeping the backroom deals Catzeyes93 was complaining about) so that it’s unpopular and they can get re-elected on repealing it). It’s a pretty good bet though.
I especially love that, in the fine print, the excess money generated (by increasing the taxes to meet the price of reduced cost healthcare, ie: money that won’t exist) will go to Black and Hispanic colleges. Shouldn’t the tax-money for healthcare go to… I dunno, HEALTHCARE?
And I agree with CatzEyes that the lack of choice is a terrible thing. It’s a personal decision if you want to save an extra buck by not paying for Health Insurance and risk the consequences, it is in no way the goverment’s job to tell the individual what they must and mustn’t have. I’m a little confused as to how a lack of penalties would affect whether or not Insurance companies can accept people. The Insurance company doesn’t take a hurt either way, so why does the individual taking a hurt make them suddenly want to risk hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars on them?
As for who all is paying for those preferential treatment, I’ve heard it’s basically heavy taxing on what the democrats define as the “wealthy”. Cause, you know, having money clearly means you’re evil.
Also, didn’t the bill pass with barely a majority? Maybe a 6 person difference in for and against? I might be wrong, but I thought in order for a bill to pass it needed a 2/3 or a 3/4 majority.
I know you only skim my posts because they are ideologically inconvenient, but please don’t misrepresent what I say if you’re going to respond.
Right-wing Democrats put in kickbacks in exchange for their votes, Republicans campaigned against them, and now Republicans are going to make it as hard as possible for Left-wing democrats to take them out in the Senate, because now that the bill is a foregone conclusion, they want to make it as bad as possible because that will help them get re-elected.
Something that a lot of people aren’t factoring into the whole money equation is how much it costs to have people not working because they’re in the hospital for stuff that would have been easily preventable if they had had proper healthcare. It’s also cheaper to treat preventatively.
lol @ the video. “3 words. Not. Good. For. The. Country. well that’s 5 words.”
“What don’t you like about the bill?” “I don’t know. I don’t know.”
“I don’t even know what’s in the bill, per se.”
“Where did you hear about the rationing?” “…Fox News”
Although I will say that the video is pretty biased. It really seems like they took all the stupid/embarrassing clips and just used them.
Yeah, college is pretty fucking expensive here. Dunno where he lives (He said ‘over here’, over where exactly?), but the government must cover college for him.
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. No government will subsidize a nose job unless it’s the wife of the Brazillian president or something 
