Miss the point much?
Stop with the ‘but the government provides this and that’ bullshit. That’s not what it’s about, it’s about forcing people into the system through force, what part of this do you not understand? The fundamental issue here is that you have no choice, you are forced to become part of the system. That’s the difference between a state and anarchism, the state forces you where as in anarchism everything is voluntary.
All this bullshit like ‘government takes care of our roads’, big fucking deal, a free market society could easily take care of that (supply and demand). The government regulates our food? Yeah big fucking deal, just look at how corrupt the FDA is. You know, that organization that is basically just a tool for big agriculture and big pharma. One day you have people working for McDonalds and Monsanto, the next day they’re working for the FDA regulating the quality of your food and medicine (“the revolving doors”)…
Again, the free market would easily be able to solve any problems like the quality of food. How? Well pretty obvious, if the food sucks nobody will buy it and the company goes bankrupt. Food can be rated by companies just like we have rating companies for other areas today. If they don’t do their job well, they go bankrupt. That’s how the free market works.
And as far as your fancy little story goes danielsangeo, shampoo contains ingredients that are not always properly tested. In fact, the FDA just looks at the report the company provides and then judges the product based on that. Usually with no further testing. They put dodgy shit like methylisothiazolinone in shampoo, HFCS in countless super market products, sugar and salt in everything. Did I mention trans fats? No surprise that the West is suffering from a massive overweight epidemic, 1 in 3 being overweight or obese. Cancer rates, diabetes and heart attacks are going through the roof. Have you seen the lunch program for schools? What a horror story.
But yeah, just trust your government, that’s probably what they told each other in the Roman Empire, or the Soviet Union, or any of the empires that have collapsed. And just so you know, we are in MASSIVE fucking debt, our whole system is based on DEBT. That’s what funded all your fancy liabilities, and guess what, it’s unsustainable.
You’re stupid, you completely misunderstood everything, you didn’t read anything, please go away.
edit:
Anyway, I really don’t understand all the fuss towards a free market society with no state. Most of the things would stay the same, except that you remove any government influence on the free market. The things your government ‘takes care of’ can be done through the free market without any need for government. It would be more efficient, and you would truly be free with no leaders, no taxation and so on. Everything is voluntary. Most people like a free market and capitalism, because they know it’s good, but they need to take the next step which is to remove the cancer that is government. Such a society would prosper and create a lot of wealth, just like the USA during the earlier years. Except this time, the government isn’t lurking around the corner like a cancer waiting to feed on wealth through taxation.
I guess what I don’t get is how you can, with a straight face, say that people have been “forced into the system by force”. We created the government to do certain things and we pay for it with taxes. It’s that simple. You are advocating the usage of government services and then NOT PAYING FOR IT, i.e., theft.
Also, the rest of your complaints would exist, in much larger portions, under your so-called “free market society”.
If you want to reduce government services, then vote for people that go to reduce those services (though anyone who advocates harming others by reducing services that many rely on to get back on their feet is an enemy in my book). You’re using services. PAY FOR THEM.
EDIT: Also, yes, private industry could do everything government does. But, why would they do it?
Seriously you sound like a winy kid that doesn’t understand any of the safeguards put in place. please tell me how your political system would deal with a riot if they don’t use any force?
I didn’t create the government, I don’t want one, I don’t want government liabilities and I sure as hell don’t want a welfare state, minimum wage and so on. They’re the ones stealing from me, because I want none of that but I’m still forced into the system. None of the people alive today created the government, those people died hundreds of years ago. You can vote left or right, but you can’t vote to abolish the system. It’s like you have two choices: you either obey or you obey - democracy summarized!
You don’t honestly think I’m one of those idiots that votes do you? And how am I supposed to oppose the state by joining it? Besides, you can only make it in politics if you have funding from corporations that share your interest. You don’t think those clowns on television got there because they’re good at governing do you?
I’m born in a prison, I can’t escape, so I better not complain and pay them because I’m using their resources.
You seem to be unable to step outside of the box and look at it from the bigger picture. Everyone in the past, in every other system that has ever existed in the last few thousand years, thought that their system or way of life was the way to go. Otherwise, those systems would instantly collapse. When slavery was normal they’d attack you for saying that slavery is immoral, and look at us now today. If you said today that slavery is good, you’d be hated for your entire life. You defend the state because you were brought up in that environment, it’s the same reason a person born in the middle east is more likely to be a Muslim where as a person born in the US is more likely to be a Christian. The atheist would be the one that recognizes this and thus steps outside of the box. It’s also the same reason that a long time ago people considered slavery as normal, because they grew up learning that it was normal. Thank goodness for critical thinkers that recognize this problem and ask themselves the question whether or not slavery is moral.
Supply and demand, this is basic economics.
Yes, you do. Every day, you agree to the government when you use those services.
That’s like saying that the summary of the James Cameron movie “Titanic” is that a boy and girl meet and throw The One Ring into the Mirror of Erised in order to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada so that Buzz Lightyear, the toy cowboy, can get back to Kansas with his dog Gordon Freeman.
You did not summarize what’s going on at all.
You use government every day. You are required to pay for what you use. Don’t like it? STOP USING GOVERNMENT SERVICES, ASSHOLE.
Nah, you’re one of those idiots that use and benefit daily from government services but don’t want to pay for 'em. Moocher.
…prison?
O_o
Dude, why would they do it? There’s no profit in a lot of this. In fact, have you ever wondered why the government is in debt? They cut revenue while continuing the spending the constituents (just like you) want. It’s completely baffling to me how you can’t step outside your box and realize this.
He is just trying to tell us that government and the people exist as completely separate entities and work on the principle of ‘the strong infringing on the weak’.
That has a diagnosis - kindergarten.
You and your idealist views can always GTFO. No one is holding you behind the bars.
If you’re born in a city you don’t have much choice whether or not you can use government services now do you? What part of my prison example did you not understand? My whole point is to abolish the state and let the free market take care of it all so we don’t have to pay for it through forced taxation. If you can’t grasp this concept then you’re fucking stupid.
There’s always a way to make profit, you see when there’s this little thing called demand that means people want something so they’ll pay for it. Or is that a bit too complex for you? And yes I know why governments are in debt, it’s because of idiots like you who think money can just be printed out of thin air to fund you fancy liabilities, socialized health care, departments and FDA-like institutions.
I can’t believe Jeannotvb has had this discussion going on for like 5 pages with nobody to back him up. He’s like a one-man army of internet RAEG.
Also, there are riots going on in my country ATM because people want free schooling. Have seen plenty of burnt cars and small businesses vandalized, so I guess it tends to be the same everywhere…
I like how you keep arbitrarily telling us that this concept is the best in the world and how you can’t tolerate a smallest objection.
There is an anecdote, which ends like this: ‘all of you are faggots and I’m D’Artagnan’.
A reminder:
And
It is also funny as hell how you keep presenting this as an inherent state mechanism. If you had at least basic knowledge about the issues - you would also know that this process was slowly starting to come to life about the time Napoleonic wars ended.
You’d also know that states and governments existed before - and dishonest bankers and loan sharks were fucked in the butt w/ a pole and hanged - just how it should be.
If you don’t have a basic expertise in history and geopolitics (I do not say economics since it isn’t a fucking science) - I suggest you to keep your mouth shut.
Constantly telling me I don’t know anything about history and such and telling me that I’m not an expert really doesn’t make you any more credible. The fact is that neither of us are experts. My interests lie in history, politics, philosophy, nutrition, astronomy and economics. I don’t have to be an expert in each of those fields to go into a discussion with you. You have no more credibility then I have.
Well last I checked, they are government liabilities.
Yet you’re constantly saying how remedial this system is and how we all ‘should see the LIGHT’. We call you on your bullshit, give arguments against it - you continue saying it’s all our fault and ‘we are all blind, how can we not understand!!!111!!!’.
Everything you said so far has been objectively proven false by me and other posters and has shown that you, as a regular ignoramus, have little ability to comprehend the processes and mechanisms being brought forward into the discussion.
So why are you trying to convince us that we are all retards? That does not give you any additional points in the discussion.
So state is prohibited to take loans? And how would the situation with loans be different in a libertarian (let’s throw away romanticising labels) society?
I was not talking loans per se. I was talking about structures and the processes that were allowed to be established to exploit that mechanism under everyone’s nose. Those know no precedents and those are the biggest problems stemming from capitalism the world faces today. Not the states and govt’s.
P.S. Oh, and I was mistaken - Bank of England, the first truly private currency emmission structure - was found in 1694. I’ll also add that capitalism (contemporary Republics) fully established it self in the western world only when the last Monarchy was destroyed - after WWI. We know what happened after and what we have now.
You call me ‘on my bullshit’, I call you on yours. You used arguments, so did I. Basically you’re just saying that I’m just wrong no matter and that you’ve already won. Well guess what, you haven’t, because I’m not convinced.
Again you arrogantly claim to have already won the discussion, and that I’m wrong either way. You have not convinced me, I can easily do the same and claim that I’ve also proven all your statements false.
Oh I’m sorry, I’m not the one who started calling other people ‘fucking morons’, but seeing as personal insults were used against me rather than solid arguments, I figured I might as well join in if that’s the way you want to argue.
Or did you forget your opening post in this thread?
Yea good job, I guess that it doesn’t apply to you then.
‘Everyone here is a faggot, I’m d’Artagnan!’
This is not only between me and you, if you have forgotten.
crafty cow, are ya?
Well then, so you are basically telling me that you want to participate in Special Olympics?
Because I sure do not.
Jean is of the opinion that the free market will out yet refuses to explain why private industry would do things such as rural electrification. Running miles of electrical cables to connect a single person to electricity is not financially advantageous.
He asserts this strange notion that governments are separate entities and not tools that we, as a people, use to advance our own desires. Governments are not inherently evil extortionists stealing people’s money. They’re actually a service that we, as a society, use to have a civilized nation. Civilization costs money and we, as a people, create government every day of the year when we request things like, for example, clean air and water, a national system of highways, a military, or education standards. Every day, we create government by desiring certain things that the “free market” will not provide.
Jean cannot name a single nation where his idea has ever worked.
And, for the United States, what he’s asking for is something counter to what the Founding Fathers created when the United States was founded and the Constitution was ratified.
Don’t for a minute think our modern country is what our founding fathers wanted. Its not. They were a bunch of slave owning white supremacist sexist bastards who had the idea of letting a minority of the public control the government. It was an incredible idea, but it was far from what we enjoy today. Not to mention they loved small government and strict constitutionalism, and would definitely consider our modern government to be too big.
Sorry about that rant, it just bugs me when people bring the founding fathers into these things. Continue with your debate of taxes.
The main point that has to be made is that having a State to be a citizen of is basically a human right.
But I liked Washington and Jefferson 
I still like them, I just don’t idealize them.
Wait. is Jean from the UK?
With a name like Jeannot?
Probably France or Benelux. Or Canada.