But they still carried out fucked up war crimes for the nazis
Ah, here’s one now. By what logic is that true? How is a soldier fighting to expand the Third Reich not a Nazi?
In my mind to be a Nazi meant you had to actually believe in the Nazi ideology, seeing as there were so many conscripts in the Wehrmacht its unfair to label them all as Nazis. You could argue that a dog is a mammal, but not all mammals are dogs.
to me, the fact that they were actually fighting as part of the Nazi army rather than deserting means they did in fact believe in the Nazi ideology. Even the few that allegedly didn’t “believe in” Nazism but were fighting FOR it anyway, saying that makes them not Nazis is semantics at best.
Yeah because deserting and getting shot in the back sounds really appealing. Its alot easier to say “ohh well they couldve done this” when your talking from behind a computer screen in the comfort of your own home 70 years after the fucking thing happened. I actually have family history in this, so I think I have more authority in this argument than you.
My grandfather was dragged away from home and conscripted into the Wehrmacht when he was 16, you really think he wanted to do that? He was not a Nazi, he didn’t take part in the Hitler youth or believe in any Nazi ideology, but simply because of where he was born he was forced to fight in a war that nothing to do with.
Authority? Lol. I take your word that your Gramps wasn’t a Nazi, but plenty of people deserted in WWII.
ok now that you’ve lost your original argument you’re arguing a totally different point. Thank you, good day, and get the fuck out.
Just because you have a personal bias doesn’t mean you’re correct. Every German soldier that actively fought for the German army in WWII materially supported and enabled Nazism. That isn’t arguable. What’s arguable is whether material support for Nazism makes one a Nazi. In my opinion, it does. If you define “Nazi” in the narrowest, most literal sense possible, it doesn’t. Again, in my opinion, that’s a distinction without a difference.
Ultimately in any totalitarian state, serving the army is a way of showing your patriotism. Not showing your patriotism is a way of showing how dead you and your relatives can be. As such, many people joined the military so that they would not be killed and their relatives not be killed by the ruling party, not necessarily because they believed in Nazism.
Nazi = National Socialist = member of a political party.
1945 the number of members in the NSDAP was 7,5 millions.
Total number of German people in the Third Reich was 78,8 millions.
Do the math yourself.
There were plenty of soldiers in the German Wehrmacht who had also become members of the party - due to the economical and political benefits that membership obviously provided for them and their families. But there was also a vast number of soldiers who were democrats at heart, but were forced into service, fearing for the life of their beloved ones, should they refuse to fight.
And in the years 1944 to 1945, more and more soldiers in the German Wehrmacht were people who were actively pressed into service by force.
My own grandfather was 17 when, in 1945, they grabbed him from his mother, put him into a Waffen-SS uniform and tatooed a skull and crossbones onto his biceps, knowing and telling him that the Russians would kill him, should they capture him alive and see him so marked, so he’d better fight to the last. They did the same with all boys of his age they could find, and carried them off to the eastern front, which was only a few miles east of Berlin at that time. There wasn’t even a point in fighting anymore. They had barely a whole clip of ammunition per rifle.
He only survived by getting rid of his uniform at the first opportunity, and by cutting the tatoo out of his flesh with a dirty army knife. I remember seeing the ugly scar on his arm.
Also, in the Third Reich, if you were head of a wealthy family and someone from the leading party asked you if you would care to join, do you really think you had a choice to say “no”? Not even all members of the NSDAP were Nazis. Many were just frightened people trying to survive in a deadly tyranny. Because “the Fuehrer would be very disappointed to hear of your attitude”.
Ehm, pretty sure the Russians would’ve lynched him anyway if they found out that he has a slice of flesh/skin missing from the spot where there’s usually a tattoo.
Yeah, because shit like that never happens during wars.
That too.
The US troops, for example, went on a massive rape-raid when they took Okinawa.
I meant more that what with all the bullets, knives, shrapnel, etc, it wasn’t exactly uncommon to have various wounds.
Still, kind of obvious when they’re checking for tattoos and there’s a slice of flesh missing where there’s usually a tattoo.
Russians would still just go “harr, ur nazi” at the slightest indication, even if it isn’t conclusive evidence.
Well apparently he wasn’t killed, so I guess it worked.
My husbands grandfather served as a nazi air pilot. It was made extremely clear to him that if he did not serve, he and his whole family would be shot.
Not all nazi’s believed, not all germans loved hitler. To blanket the whole thing with “all are bad” is just plain stupidity in my opinion.
“fighting for the Nazi army in WWII was a bad thing to do” isn’t exactly a controversial opinion (except apparently for people with German ancestry).
Yes it is. How is keeping your family alive a “bad thing to do”. It isn’t a simple black and white issue.
When “keeping your family alive” causes hundreds of thousands of other people’s families to die, it’s a bad thing to do.
Furthermore, this whole argument about German conscripts not being able to escape with their lives is suspect - I seem to recall from High School history class that a good number of German Jewish families escaped Germany alive. Probably easier for Aryans to do it than, Jews, no?