There’s too many whites.
Got to agree about the points about new members being treated like they have nothing relevant to say. This happens in all forums but it would be nice if on this one at least it was kept to a minimum. It’s not like your posting skill improves over time or your intelligence improves the more you post. People with lower post count are also automatically assumed to have no technical knowledge of the Source engine.
I’ve been following this mod off and on almost since it’s inception, but have only recently started using the forums. I don’t post much as I don’t usually have much to say. However, I think threads like this spawn the “unprofessional” vibe. Granted, this is a forbidden question, but c’mon; everyone’s thinking what this guy asked. Thing that bothered ME about it was that the majority of people just picked apart what he said and belittled him. (I’m positive that there are threads that get FAR worse than this, but this was the first thing that came to mind.) If I had just come here to check out the awesomeness that is Black Mesa and saw that, I probably wouldn’t even register. In fact, it’s that kind of elitist mentality that (in part) kept me from doing that until recently.
In short, I think what this forum needs more of: Tact.
I smell a troll. [COLOR=‘DarkSlateGray’]I’m taking the bait shh.
A more constructive version of my post earlier…
I don’t post here because I don’t have anything to post, if I wanted to say something, I would.
But from my observing, some people seem to have the “elitist” attitude, I won’t name anyone, but the sheer amount of bullshit that accumulates after a flame makes it not worth posting anything at all.
Don’t get me wrong, some of these people do deserve it.
But there are some good people among the newcomers, it’s easy to spot them. There are also those regular lurkers who have good constructive posts to add or witty troll posts to tickle people’s sense of humor, but choose not to post because they don’t need to. Such is the case with me.
As a consensus to stop the rambling: I agree with most of the points that have been brought up, Catz with the having a bit of fun, but also cracking down a little bit, enough to cut the crap with most of the regulars.
People can have a little bit of fun, but when push comes to shove, make sure to crack down on every one, not just the newbies (no favoritism). So that every one can have some level playing ground.
Part of the problem that I was trying to point out with my post is that due to the nature of the forums its hard for ANYONE to have anything relevant to say. You basically have 4 categories of people:
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Old members who know they don’t have anything relevant to say that hasn’t been said already
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New members who weren’t around when the old stuff was said and want to try to say something relevant, even if it’s old.
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Old members who know there’s nothing better to do on these forums than bash the people in category 2 for not contributing anything new (even though they aren’t contributing anything new either)
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New members who realize they have nothing relevant to add so they don’t even bother and instead create pointless flamebait threads for the people in category 3 to respond to.
The only way I can see to address the issue is for the devs to start releasing new, up to date information, even if it’s just 30-second-long clips recorded in fraps and sent to youtube, or a playable demo that’s just the initial tram system introduction and nothing else. Alpha release material doesn’t hack it with the current mindset, as all you can get out of it is “wow that looks great” or “I don’t like how that looks, I suggest XYZ” which immediately gets the response of “It’s ALPHA RELEASE, the devs have already finished it so your suggestion is pointless!”
Fine, I understand that the devs want to only release the mod in its entirety so people can form valid opinions about it, but having a thriving forum requires that there be a subject that people can form valid opinions on. The choice is either release current material or accept that the forums will go down in flames and shit, or shut down the forums until Black Mesa actually releases and redirect everyone who tries to come here to the Wiki page.
I remember suggesting to Raw Bean way back when that the registration should be changed so that the bot protection actually links you to the wiki and quizzes you about some of the information in it.(but doesn’t tell you precisely where to find it) In order for registration to be approved you have to answer a certain number of questions correctly which requires you to have read the wiki and faq to find the answers.
Even with new information and registration that actually DEPENDED on reading the wiki (and not just a checkbox that says “I have read the wiki”) there would still need to be a crackdown on anyone who bashes someone just for asking stupid questions(whether trolling or not) If it’s an old question that has been asked a million times, just point them to where they can find the answer, or ignore them.
There comes a point when “DON’T FEED THE TROLLS” needs to be enforced. Someone committing a murder can be sent to jail, but so can someone who was aiding and abetting that murderer. People who respond to flamebait fall into pretty much the same category as far as I’m concerned.
Interesting points Catz. I think the main reason is because of the length of the project, no end date in sight and the problems of asking questions here. So it is damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Unfortunately in my opinion, the release date was a HUGE mistake. Again, my opinion not trying to insult you at all but that seems to have added an even worse round of people who are not interested unless a download link is available. If that makes sense.
I can also gather that the reason for the unprofessional comment is the whole “whenever it is done” attitude is what does it for some people.
Think of it this way, the date was put out there and missed. We are now heading into March and the mod does not appear on any radar blips and to top it off the “when it’s done” factor comes out.
Also I notice that if anyone shows any concern or displeasure about something in regards to this mod they are immediately labeled a troll. regardless of the question. I mean even with my post count it feels like I am speaking to myself.
I made a suggestion before and I guess it got kicked to the curb, but finding someone to help out with updates would probably weed out a bunch of people. Most people are angry over the whole missed date thing, from what I see is the date was missed and now there are NO updates. So it went from bad to worse.
I think you guys are professional but the way things are being done now it is easy to see why people would say that. From what I have been reading some thing this is a big hoax and that it was an attempt to gain a following for future employment. I guess you can chalk it up to my career field that basically has me updating almost daily.
Just some small suggestions Catz. By the way, my wife lived in Denver and misses CO. LOL.
I joined in late 2009 and posted a ton every day back then, but have been lurking around lately. The forums are fine really, everyone’s just got a certain attitude that takes a bit of getting used to. Really, though, it’s a great group of people. I would like to see some of the excessive flaming die down, but the forums will survive one way or the other. Some newcomers might not get the right impression of the community at first glance though, which is bad for the mod.
Basically, as stated in another post above, it’s all been said before. We’ve covered pretty much everything that there is to talk about regarding the mod, so many posts are off-topic, ridiculous, or purely about other members rather than the mod.
It’s kind of to be expected, given how long everyone’s been waiting for this (and I dont mean that as an accusation against the devs; by all means, take your time and make the best game possible). It’s just that this is what happens eventually.
To be fair to Ram (and this is not a suck up) he’s harsh to both well established members and newbs. The problems come from certain well established members.
I have seen some well established members be sympathetic to foreign language newbs who didn’t understand some basic stuff, and I’ve been glad some other well established members were not around when these guys posted. Mainly because some members will try and insult someone who speaks very poor english because they speak very poor english. I appreciate why these guys are “easy targets” but it aint cool, and will have a detrimental affect on those who want to download the mod. However they are discouraged by trolls.
At the same time there are members who assume they are superior to the rest of us. When they think they may be better educated or their arguments mean more. They really are a pox on the forum as they will kill some people’s want to download this mod. Surely we want mostly positive forum users who draw more people to the mod. Not old codgers who assume they are “the ultimate in evolution of forum life this far” who scare away newbs. This forum is too full of nice guys and gals to kill the unitiated forum newbs who hit us?
(sorry if I’ve been OTT been drinkin for a while)
Rofl. So you think someone’s going to go “boo hoo, someone was mean to me on a forum, so now I’m not going to download the game I’ve been looking forward to for years, even though that person has nothing to do with the game at all”. Riiiight. You are correct on one part of that though - someone THAT sensitive won’t ever download or play the mod - because they would have already jumped off a bridge a long time ago.
People seriously need to stop making excuses for their own and others stupidity and laziness.
It is posts like this that seem to prove our point emphatically.
What is funny is you are making excuses for people, such as yourself, being condescending and a prick. I do not understand why you feel the need to insult in almost all of your posts? You bicker at everyone. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.
Shasta man, I’m sick of arguing with you. However I find it insulting when you call me, and other forum members, stupid. You don’t know our levels of education, calling people who may be more intelligent than you “stupid” only makes you seem silly and having the audacity to think you are more “educated” than them only makes you more appear more conceited than you seem to appreciate at the minute.
I don’t want anyone to “boo hoo” at me, but I have come to realise in my 23 years that a bit of humilty gains you more friends and a better sense of humour. I also think you may be a little naive if you think that asshattery on the forums endears anyone to the mod, or indeed the community that supports the mod.
You’re different, you rule the bloody place. 
I’d like to know, what makes a “douchefag forum member” or “elitist forum member”? Because it seems some of you are just classifying everyone with a big post count as one, and you all seem to forget we can be nice to new members (though some insist on bashing).
That’s the thing, on the internet everyone is on the same playing field, if you say “I’m a scientist!” people won’t believe you, so whatever education you have out there means jack shit. If you act or say things that are dumb people will think you are dumb.
That is just it, the eye of the beholder. Someone may say that you are dumb or saying dumb things and someone else might think it is a great question or answer.
Unfortunately it goes both ways as the ones with the high post count paint with the same brush as we are painting with. You are dead on with your comment about some just insist on bashing. Which adds frustration and anger to the board.
Hi Acrisoft, I don’t class everyone with a big post count as elitist. Only those who treat newbs, or anyone who defends them, as if they’re idiots I consider as elitist.
In terms of “everyone thinks you’re dumb” personally I tend to think everyone can be stupid (from the university professor to the 1st year high school student) at times. Maybe be if everyone were a bit more chilled (I’m not sayin you’re not, indeed you and a lot of the upstanding forum members seem to be quite chilled) then would be a more community oriented atmosphere in the forum. It’s also why I didn’t attack Shasta with whatever my level of education was, I just asked him to consider the fact that some of the people he is calling “stupid” would wipe the floor with him in certain or many subjects. I openly accept that many people in this forum would kill me on many subjects, even though I have obtained a reasonable level of education.
EDIT: I really didn’t mean the opening to sound confrontational. I mean what I said in the civilest possible manner. I apologise if I caused offence.
But I mean things like:
May seem like unnecessary asshole behavior but we here have our own sense of humor, we understand that when someone calls us a fag they actually mean, “you there!”. Most of it is just friendly flaming and we don’t actually mean anything by it but I see how it would come off as trolling to a new member.
Some people here are just too sensitive to these types of things and seem to think we actually mean something by it. When someone on the internet is mean to you anyways it doesn’t make a difference.
Acri, I don’t mean to get at humorous flaming, sometimes people just set themselves up for it. Hovever sometimes people just go out of their way to get at people. I’ve been round the forum scene long enough to know when I do something silly people will take the piss. It makes me laugh as much as anyone. If I couldn’t survive a bit of a grilling I might as well move out of the house I live in, my housemates will take apart everything I say, as much as I will to them.
The problem I have is when people are genuinely insulting to others, it bothers me. Maybe I am over sensitive, I just disagree with bullying.
WOW Raminator, you’re way more perceptive than I’d given you credit for. It seems I’ve underestimated you :evil:
That was a bad example; it was actually funny.
Honestly, I see this as a pretty fucking stupid way of thinking. I’m actually not saying that to be mean or ironic either, which is why I’ll clarify what I mean by that.
The problem with people acting like assholes to be funny is that people who don’t get the joke think that it’s okay to actually BE an asshole, and when you’re acting like an asshole to be funny, the only thing keeping YOU from actually BEING an asshole is if you managed to be funny. If you failed to be funny, then blaming the other guy for not getting the joke doesn’t negate your assholery that has only served to bury the forums deeper in shit.
And it DOES make a difference if someone is mean to you on the internet. No, not on a personal level, but there’s no fucking need for it, and instead of it being just one single-post thread that could be ignored and gets buried within a few days, it becomes a 12 page bag of shit that pushes threads that actually have a topic off the first page. That makes a difference to me, and any other member who is interested in finding worthwhile topics to contribute to and doesn’t want to waste their time wading through sewage to find them.
The reason I don’t post here is because I never feel like I have anything important to contribute. That and, like someone else said, it’s fun to sit back and read :awesome: