So Mininova is Dead ?

[Solokiller]

Not if we can get rid of the economic system that drives them, but that sometimes drives the developers behind games too.

[poptartfrommars]

@sersoft

Just use google for good torrents, never failed me.

Torrents are traceable. use newsgroups

[JohnKiller118]

Or just get a fucking job like every decent person in society.
I don’t care if your ideology doesn’t agree with Capitalism. Capitalism is the reason games are made. You don’t like it? Go to some shit war torn African country where there is very little government control. OR you can just accept the fact that you’re not going to be playing many new games for a while, get a job, and save up.

[Gordon]

@JohnKiller118

Or just get a fucking job like every decent person in society.
I don’t care if your ideology doesn’t agree with Capitalism. [COLOR=‘Red’]Capitalism is the reason games are made.[/SIZE] You don’t like it? Go to some shit war torn African country where there is very little government control. OR you can just accept the fact that you’re not going to be playing many new games for a while, get a job, and save up.

/facepalm

Oh, the irony.

[JohnKiller118]

Okay…
Let me give you some basic economics:
First, there’s the consumer. The consumer has the right to decide what to buy. The consumer makes these decisions using legal methods such as research, word of mouth, reviews etc… or whatever company has the funniest/sexiest ad. But whatever.

The manufactures/developers want your money. They do this by making products. It is up to the consumer, using legal methods, to decide what to buy.

Piracy, however, gives too much power to the consumer. Yeah, I know Capitalism can be dirty and companies are universally very, very evil, but piracy just crosses the line between consumer rights and stealing. Sure, this could lead the consumer to buy the product if they like it, but more often than not, people just use it to get free games. That is NOT good economics.

Besides, the consumers can boycott companies that they believe are evil (like, say, GAP, for using foreign child labor), but that’s going to take a shit load of effort and a shit load of people. And since the average modern consumer is a stupid lazy fuck, that’s not going to happen. Go ahead and prove me wrong though. I hope I am.
But regardless, game developers aren’t using small Chinese children to make games.

But I know I fucked up with my wording somewhere in that comment and I’ll probably get flamed for it, but whatever.

Anyway, on the subject of in-game ads. I noticed a few product placements for Apple in Metal Gear Solid 4. There’s an iPod that lets you listen to music music from all of the Metal Gear games, and Otacon uses a MacBook to control Metal Gear Mk. II and do other cool things. While I doubt the MacBook is that awesome, it’s very clever advertising and didn’t take away from the game at all (for me at least.)

[Solokiller]

My point was that economics are the cause of problems, i.e. they keep you from getting a better life by limiting what you can do and get. I know we’ve got limited resources, but we’re not exactly using them correctly now anyway, when we should be focussing on expanding into space, we’re expanding on earth even more.

The usual response to that argument is “space isn’t a realistic option”, but in my opinion it’s either space or every single last human dieing right here, on earth.

[bur]

oh god not this again

We get it, John, you’re against piracy. Get over it.

Also,

THERE ARE LEGAL TORRENTS

[JohnKiller118]

@Burbinator

oh god not this again

We get it, John, you’re against piracy. Get over it.

Also,

THERE ARE LEGAL TORRENTS

like…
If everyone is allowed to talk shit about how “evil and corrupt” game developers are for not giving away games for free even though IT’S THEIR FUCKING JOB TO MAKE GAMES FOR A PROFIT, then I’m allowed to speak in the defense of the developers, even the sucky ones (I’m looking at you SouthPeak.)

@Solokiller

My point was that economics are the cause of problems, i.e. they keep you from getting a better life by limiting what you can do and get. I know we’ve got limited resources, but we’re not exactly using them correctly now anyway, when we should be focussing on expanding into space, we’re expanding on earth even more.

The usual response to that argument is “space isn’t a realistic option”, but in my opinion it’s either space or every single last human dieing right here, on earth.

What?!
Were talking about piracy. Not space exploration.

[felipedomaul]

GET READY FOR AN ANTICOPYRIGHT-QUOTE FEST!

@wikipedia

[COLOR=‘red’]while copyright infringement may (or may not) cause economic loss to the copyright holder, as theft does, it does not appropriate a physical object, nor deprive the copyright holder of the use of the copyright. That information can be replicated without destroying an original is an old observation, and a cornerstone of intellectual property law. In economic terms, information is not a rival good; this has led some to argue that it is very different in character, and that laws for physical property and intellectual property should be very different.

@wikipedia

Freedom of knowledge
Groups such as Hipatia, CULT OF THE DEAD COW and Hacktivismo advance anti-copyright arguments in the name of “freedom of knowledge” and argue that knowledge should be “shared in solidarity”. [COLOR=‘red’]Such groups may perceive “freedom of knowledge” as a right, and/or as fundamental in realising the right to education, which is an internationally recognised human right, as well as the right to a free culture and the right to free communication. They argue that current copyright law hinders the realisation of these rights in today’s knowledge societies relying on new technological means of communication.
Copyright law is seen as preventing or slowing human progress. It is argued that the current copyright system needs to be brought into line with reality and the needs of society. Hipatia argues that this would “provide the ethical principles which allow the individual to spread his/her knowledge, to help him/herself, to help his/her community and the whole world, with the aim of making society ever more free, more equal, more sustainable, and with greater solidarity.”

@wikipedia

Intellectual monopoly
“In the case of both patents and copyright, from the point of view of economics, there are two ingredients in the law: the right to buy and sell copies of ideas, and the right to control how other people make use of their copies. The first right is not controversial.
In copyright law, when applied to the creator this right is sometimes called the “right of first sale.” However, it extends also to the legitimate rights of others to sell their copies. It is the second right, enabling the owner to control the use of intellectual property after sale, that is controversial. This right produces a monopoly – enforced by the obligation of the government to act against individuals or organizations that use the idea in ways prohibited by the copyright or patent holder.”

@wikipedia

…results in a weaker incentive at creativity
“The evolution of copyright from an occasional grant of royal privilege to a formal and eventually widespread system of law should in principle have enhanced composers’ income from publication. The evidence from our quantitative comparison of honoraria received by Beethoven, with no copyright law in his territory, and Robert Schumann, benefiting from nearly universal European copyright, provides at best questionable support for the hypothesis that copyright fundamentally changed composers’ fortunes. From the qualitative evidence on Giuseppe Verdi, who was the first important composer to experience the new Italian copyright regime and devise strategies to derive maximum advantage, it is clear that copyright could make a substantial difference. In the case of Verdi, greater remuneration through full exploitation of the [COLOR=‘Red’]copyright system led perceptibly to a lessening of composing effort.”

@wikipedia

…increases the cost of creation
“Tarnation, a powerful autobiographical documentary by director Jonathan Caouette, has been one of the surprise hits of the Cannes Film Festival - despite costing just [COLOR=‘red’]$218 (£124) to make.”
“As for the budget, which has attracted as much attention as the subject matter, Caouette said he had added up how much he spent on video tapes - plus a set of angel wings - over the years. But the total spent will rise to about [COLOR=‘red’]$400,000 (£230,000), he said, once rights for music and video clips he used to illustrate a mood or era have been paid for.”

@wikipedia

Non-scarcity
Libertarians, particularly proponents of Austrian economics, including Rothbard, McElroy, Palmer, Lepage, Bouckaert, and Stephan Kinsella, argue that copyright is invalid because, unlike physical property, intellectual property is not scarce and is, they claim, a legal fiction created by the state. That is, [COLOR=‘red’]infringing on copyright, unlike theft, does not deprive the victim of the original item, and so enforcement of copyright law constitutes aggression on the part of the state.

[JohnKiller118]

@Burbinator

oh god not this again

We get it, John, you’re against piracy. Get over it.

Also,

THERE ARE LEGAL TORRENTS

Also, I like how your only response is to tell me to shut up. Very intelligent. That’s certainly going to get us somewhere in this argument.

[bur]

I told you to get over it, not to shut up.

[JohnKiller118]

Isn’t that the same thing?
Like I said:

@JohnKiller118

If everyone is allowed to talk shit about how “evil and corrupt” game developers are for not giving away games for free even though IT’S THEIR FUCKING JOB TO MAKE GAMES FOR A PROFIT, then I’m allowed to speak in the defense of the developers, even the sucky ones (I’m looking at you SouthPeak.)

If anything, YOU need to get over the fact that piracy is horrible to the industry and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking moron.

[Benjamin]

@JohnKiller118

If anything, YOU need to get over the fact that piracy is horrible to the industry and anyone who says otherwise is a fucking moron.

Well, clearly no-one who pirates a product buys more of that product because of it. It just doesn’t happen, and it’s a completely unrealistic scenario. Also, no-one is ever falsely accused of (or punished because of) piracy.

Also, yeah, those people are fucking morons. The system as it stands totally works well and no-one’s opposed to simply suing everyone who disagrees.

[COLOR=‘DarkSlateGray’]This forum needs sarcasm tags.[/SIZE]

[JohnKiller118]

That’s the music industry.
I’m talking about the games industry, where making games and buying games are expensive.
The average person doesn’t want to shell out $50-$60 for a game they may not like, and developers don’t want to makes games that cost a shit load to make, only to be stolen by pirates.

And I’m not saying DRM doesn’t suck. It does (well, at least the kind that require an arm and a leg to get going. Steam is an example of GOOD DRM.) What I am saying is that piracy is bad for the GAMES industry.
Now until I see a report that says piracy is the reason for high sales (similar to your article on music), then I’m going to ignore and possibly laugh at you’re stupidity.
But even then, no consumer has ANY right to pirate a game anyway.

[Daedalus]

Johnkiller: Does every fucking post you make have to have something to do with piracy? Can’t you just face the fact that you’re not changing everything? Whatever you say, people will continue piracy. As will I.
So just lighten up dude. Let it go.

And I agree with Burbinator. You’re commenting on how it’s not an intelligent response to just tell you to get over it. But seriously. GET OVER IT. We know you’re agains piracy. The whole forum knows that. Now that everyone knows, you can stop it.

[TheSuperNova]

this guys right ^ very intelligent, useful and extremely relevant post by me

[Collision]

John, shut the fuck you pretentious preechy faggot.

We don’t give a shit about your morale crusade against piracy, and never will.

Fucking get the fuck over it, you are a minority in a democratic place.

It’s clear noone wants to hear you rant on and on about it so don’t fucking bring up the subject every fucking chance you get.

Sincerely, Fuck you.

[bur]

@JohnKiller118

Isn’t that the same thing?

“Get over it” implies you should stop attacking people aggressively whenever piracy is mentioned.

“Shut up” implies you have to keep quiet altogether.

So no. You accuse me of being immature but you’re being aggressive in pretty much all of your posts. Please stop being a self-indulged hypocrite, if you’d be so kind.

[MaxTheLimit]

@JohnKiller118

…The average person doesn’t want to shell out $50-$60 for a game they may not like, and developers don’t want to makes games that cost a shit load to make, only to be stolen by pirates…

Just keep mention stealing. I’m sure if you do the FACT that it isn’t accurate will eventually be lost. I mean, if you say something that is WRONG often enough, it will eventually end up being right. Makes sense right? Keep at it jackass.

[JohnKiller118]

Again, I love the thought provoking responses I’m getting. It’s really making me reconsider my stance on the situation. Thank you guys for helping me see the truth. [/sarcasm]

I know my “crusade” isn’t doing a damn thing to stop piracy. If you’re going to pirate something, then go ahead. I’ll just call you a cunt and tell you you’re ruining the industry. But what keeps me coming back here is all the excuses I hear about how “i have no moniez” or “da gam sux but i want to play it cuz it sux lol!!!11!!1!!”

Have fun destroying PC gaming.