On A Rail Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

General Development Source 1
#541

you don’t have to add another seen for the execution you just replace the line of dead bodies with an active one that the player just happens to get there in time to witness. the reason I think you should see the execution but not be able to prevent it (being blocked off from it or just to far away) is to add to the reason to keep going and to to feel of crap I caused this which is going through out the game. jsut seeing the after math doesn’t give much emotional response as seeing it happen. body lying around mean nothing but seeing them alive jsut a few seconds earlier adds to the drive.

(might need to reword that because of over describing)

I think I understand where you are going with not seeing any alive scientists in the uncut as they did do that in half life up till the end of the chapter. seeing some alive scientists held out in part of the office with at least one guard with them might help the area or might hurt it depending on how you do it, if its in an obscure area that is more hidden an out of the way (liek a janators closest or tram maintenance area) it would help. but if it was on a main path from the office area it would hurt… how about putting them just behind the door where you had all thoughs batteries in the video.

what I am thinking

move the batteries into that room and place a barricade in it have 2 scientists in it (use the couch couple animations from half life) and one guard with a shotgun or revolver. the guard will not follow you and the scientist are to busy being scared to talk. (would re move need for lines)… I think there are some generic lines for the guard that you could use for that situation.

#542

Also just a random idea but I noticed when the you went from BM map to your map, the tram suddenly stopped. I’m guessing this is unavoidable without editing BM’s A map, but maybe you could have the engine spark a couple times after that so it just looks like the tram just broke down for a second :stuck_out_tongue:

#543

As in it’ll leave you with more space on the bottom level on the inside of the turn ( Sorry, bit hard to visualize atm.)? Seems an alright way out. Might as well put some shit there too (i.e. sandbags, radio and army packages)

Same here. It was a nice little touch to see the leaf hanging over the edge when you looked up while riding the tram through that area.

#544

Nah, it was editing. The tram transitions across just fine, momentum and all. I had to reshoot that bit because in the first take for that bit the dude on the wooden planks glitched out. That’s all it was.

As I said before, the primary reason I’m not including living friendly NPCs is because there aren’t really any good lines for them, so I either have to record them (makes MANY inconsistencies) or edit/splice them together from BM’s existing lines (very likely to make a mediocre result). The NPCs have to have lines because it would be super weird if they didn’t. That’s the primary reason I consider it an unviable approach. The other reason for not giving them lines is it means OaR Uncut won’t need to make any edits to scenes.image, allowing it to be compatible with most other mods which alter BM. As I said, I’ll play it by ear. If people find the Office Complex to be too boring I may add some live NPCs to the top floor, but this seems a bit unlikely - most of the complaints so far about the Office Complex seem to be focussed around there being too much stuff.

#545

To add to that, seeing a group of executed people I think gives the player better storytelling then just seeing the grunt shoot someone. To let the player guess what happened in the poor scientists last moments of life is better then seeing the actual execution.

#546

I do like the YOUR NEXT FREEMAN idea someone had, by the way. : )

#547

Ah, that’s perfect then! Once you get the lighting just right, the transition would be absolutely flawless. :smiley:

#548

Maybe without mispelling it, though. Or, at the very least, have a large version mispelled, with the wrong letter crossed out (or the left-out letter put up very small at the top as if they messed up on accident and didn’t have room to put the letter in there afterwards.)

#549

Progress update: I’ve completed the basic edits to the B map, including the 180 degree rotation. Meaning, I’m ready to start on mapping the end section of D - and the maps should fit together properly now! It was a little tougher than I thought it would be, with a couple complications, but it worked out pretty alright in the end.

I’m currently working on adding the Apprehension style lighting to the tunnel prefabs that I have. I also decided to add a few of the design elements from the early Apprehension tunnels, such as the beams running across the tunnels, to reinforce that theme. It looks pretty cool actually, I’m starting to think it might make the B maps really interesting thematically, if I can find a satisfactory way to pull off the transition in lighting scheme. I will certainly have to find a way to make it look like an active part of the rail system, but that shouldn’t be too difficult - as the E-G maps feature moving trams being used by the HECU, and a crate transportation system which is clearly very busy.

The best thing about all this is that by clever (though I do say so myself!) use of the visgroups system which Hammer has - I can toggle between the two themes with a simple checkbox. Untick “OaR”, tick “Apprehension,” bam. Blue lighting, the ceiling/wall beams, totally different mood. Tick “OaR,” untick “Apprehension,” bam - warm rust red lighting and no beams, just like the rest of Black Mesa. It’s a bit of work to set up now but it’ll save me time in the long run and allows me to test the new lighting theme virtually risk free. If people don’t like it or think it stands out too much it’ll be really really easy to switch back in the future. Might bring back a bit of the mood from HL’s OaR which Black Mesa was missing.

I like the misspelling, it was kinda a unique part of HL’s OaR, but the problem is it portrays the HECU as being really quite dumb. I’ve never seen anyone write “Yore” before. I didn’t like AT ALL that Black Mesa portrayed the HECU as kinda dumb, really inefficient, young, insult spewing kids. I much preferred it in HL1 where they seemed like a ruthless, elite military force, trying their best to control a situation rapidly spiraling out of control.

I digress. I’d quite like a “You did this Freeman” or something above the corpses but am a tad worried it’ll make the whole scene overblown and too over the top. I might trial it, though.

I agree wholeheartedly, that’s why I did that scene like that.

#550

For your lighting transition, you did say that you wanted to have the player take an “alternate” route after priming the rocket because the “direct” route to the launch pad was blocked off. Your alternate route…ie maps B1,B2 would allow you to use the Apprehension lighting to show the player is in another part of the rail system, and once they get to C, they return to the original rail system. Maybe you already knew that though…in any case cant wait to see more!

#551

Actually, that’s not a half-bad idea. Have the player transition to an “older” part of the rail system for B1 & 2 before transitioning back to classic rusty lighting.

#552

Don’t the colder lighting and the Apprehension tracks represent a newer, or at least more active, part of the facility? O_o

#553

Nah, the misspelling in the sprays were what made it pretty hilarious.
(Talking about the ‘Yore dead Freeman’ and ‘Surrender Freemen’ sprays that we didn’t see in BM’s version)

It’s too bad those weren’t included the first time so i’m hoping they’ll be put back in for OaR uncut.

#554

Actually no.
The track you take at the start of Apprehension goes to an older (and mostly abandoned) part of Black Mesa.
It’s why the flooded silo you get thrown into at the start and the areas afterwards look like they’re from the 50s.
(Because those areas are part of the original base that Black Mesa was built on)

So to whoever suggested that Text create the B maps’ tunnels in the spirit of that tunnel and the area at the start of Apprehension, that actually wouldn’t make sense.
Atleast, if the system was being made so that everything starts looking newer as you kept going up until you reached the outside; which is basically what happened in Half-Life.

But this is some serious nitpicking here and it doesn’t really matter as long as it doesn’t look ridiculous. :meh:

This would work too actually.
If the tunnel prefabs for the B maps were already finished and Text doesn’t feel like starting over, he could just go this route.
And then finally transition into a more modern and heavily used section of the Mat. Trans. system at the end just before you get outside.

But like I said; that’s some serious nitpicking over details that i’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t notice right away.
(Though the effect would be pretty neat for the people who would notice it)

#555

Agreed, Black Mesa’s HECU don’t need to be made any less intimidating. The misspellings in HL worked because in every other respect the marines were as menacing as an extremely wet bar of soap in a prison bathroom.

For my part, I’d rather see at least one execution be exactly the way it is in the video build - reasonably lit (to add the more horrific element of cold mundanity, rather than the forced spook-factor generated by a dark room you need your flashlight for), no spray. It’s the grunts doing their business, and unlike most of We’ve Got Hostiles, you’re too late to do anything about it. I think it’s actually an important thing to show in the game, and will add quite a bit to Black Mesa.

If you do decide to go for a spray though, in my opinion “You’re next, Freeman” works better than “You did this”, as it provides additional menace and hits the right tone, whereas the latter spray would just evoke, for me at least, “Er, no I didn’t.”

#556

I do think I’d prefer to see the YOUR(E) NEXT FREEMAN spray in a nearby hallway, not literally above the line of dead scientists.

#557

Fixed it :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh wait, Seeing people talk about how the grunts are in Black Mesa, I actually forgot all about how they sound really stupid (and not in a good way).
I’ve been using the HL1 grunt sounds since forever now. :\

Yeah I suppose you wouldn’t want to let it reach a point where the grunts seem more comical than menacing.

I actually don’t know if the grunts just sound the way they do because the BM devs made the STUPID decision to have them like that or because of the voice actors behind them.
Granted the voices for the grunts in Half-Life were masked by a filter, but they still sounded more convincing and serious than the grunts in BM.
And it kind of applies to the scientists too (And the fact that they managed to turn them into your typical basement dwelling nerd in BM); yet they somehow managed to fucking nail the voice for the security guards.

#558

I don’t plan on changing that execution scene at all from the video, really, aside from possibly adding a spray somewhere. I really liked the way it turned out. I may add a second one somewhere else but that may be overdoing it.

On the topic of the HECU, though it is a little unrelated discussion, I have to agree with the views expressed here that the portrayal of the HECU in Black Mesa was, aside from the cuts, one of BM’s weakest aspects, at least in my opinion. I seem to recall reading somewhere that the BM Devs said their portrayal of the HECU in BM was supposed to be like an 80s, slightly campy bad guy, to make them less relatable for the player - which seems like utterly baffling logic to me. It just creates a weird mood dissonance where you on the one hand the story has the US Military gunning down innocent scientists and enjoying it whilst trying to cover up some seriously nasty experiments, and on the other hand you have these ridiculous sounding soldiers who sound like 18 year old Call of Duty players. I don’t really understand why they decided that this particular portrayal was appropriate to the story.

I’m still hoping they tidy that particular aspect up a bit for the Xen release, but that’s a very hopeful picture. If they sorted that out it would be my biggest qualm with Black Mesa by far out the window.

But I digress. To keep it on topic, I think the spelling mistakes on the sprays would just serve to compound something I already view as a serious problem within Black Mesa - the portrayal of the HECU. They already sound and seem dumb enough as it is, I don’t think having seriously misspelled signs written on the walls would do them any favours.

Yeah, I agree, Kevin Sisk seriously NAILED the security guard voice. Brilliant. I have no objections to the scientists, and as for the HECU I’ve already explained my stance on that. I actually think the voice actors for the HECU were alright, they just needed a better direction (read: opposite direction) and maybe a little more filtering (the HECU in HL1 sounded TERRIFYING and robotic).

#559

About the spray, I agree with everything said, I personally replaced all the voices (except the scripted ones) with the “medic” voice (hgrunt_young) because it sounds more down-to-earth. So for the spray, I think it should be at least spelled correctly (You’re dead Freeman!), grammar errors could be acceptable (Your dead Freeman!), but nothing more ‘wrong’ than that, except maybe misspelling his name which is acceptable if they haven’t seen it written (You’re dead Freemen!). But limit it to only one error at a time, we don’t want to make them look absolutely worthless, BM already did that.

#560

To be honest, I think the Black Mesa devs missed (or chose to ignore, for fear of moral complexity) my favorite aspect of the HL1 grunts - they’re not actually evil, just wrong. As far as they know, YOU’RE a campy 80s villain who wants to destroy the world by flooding it with aliens. Somewhere up the line, someone’s trying to cover up the Black Mesa incident - but I’ve always gotten the impression that the soldiers that you’re actually fighting believe themselves to be killing the people who did this, for their crimes against humanity. Black Mesa added a scene in Questionable Ethics where the HECU plan to rape female scientists, to further dehumanize the HECU. While I suppose the existence of such events are plausible (considering the in-universe dehumanization the HECU apply to the Black Mesa science team), considering the focus of the Questionable Ethics chapter, I would have added a scene to the opposite effect - an HECU dragging a terrified, pleading scientist through the laboratories, shouting angrily at him as he points out the evidence that the Black Mesa scientists knew what could result from their experiments. Maybe even add a room where the Black Mesa biology team tested headcrabs on animal and eventually human subjects - the chapter is called “Questionable Ethics”, after all.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.