On A Rail Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

It hasn’t been, and your sketch shows absolutely nothing of the sort.

The outdoor area from G was replicated slightly (not accurately) and integrated into the rocket segment from H. The entire section of C before that is original and not even slightly true to HL’s G segment. They are wholly different in design, certainly different enough to not be considered a remake. If you consider recreating 1/3 of G on BM’s C to be “G was re-made,” then congratulations, you win.

It still baffles me that you guys started assuming my intentions when I’d clearly stated several times before I wasn’t planning on altering C at all, and that you could all so badly misinterpret the schametic I’d posted. But, nevermind, eh. You’re over it now.

The mods are right - it would probably be better if you guys clarified things with me first rather than trying to speak for me first.

I wasn’t speaking for you… I was making a critique based on what I had understood and asking you a question. But yeah, everything’s cleared up now, so fine.

Yeah everything’s clear now.

However I’ll agree to disagree that HL’s original outdoor section (not G entirely obviously) wasn’t made in BM…it was it just wasn’t in the same map which is no surprise as there are fewer maps in BM’s OaR.

When I was making composites for my composite project https://halfmesa.wordpress.com it wasn’t like I came to that point in OaR and said hmmm I wonder if this event has been recreated.

That section of OaR was in fact one of the easiest to make composites of despite the epic-ness of the redesign.

Anyway I cannot wait to see your work as you continue this project Text, your work is nothing short of astonishing- I just wish I could play it.

And I agree it’s perfectly clear now what you’re doing- and I thank you for clearing it up.

Will be following this.

Re lighting:

  1. Stick w/BMS’ warm lighting style as it makes no sense to change it in the B maps and is far more compatible with the rust-colored walls. The colder lighting at the end-of C is supposed to signal a transition to Apprehension and matches the lighting style in that chapter; this is unique and should not be replicated in the B maps (note the tunnels here are the same age as the rest of OaR). One thing you CAN do w/a bluer and more fluorescent style is use it in the HL F remake where the Mat. Trans. theme comes into full swing. The lighting by the tracks should be kept warm for consistency but the surrounding area can have a colder feel to it to reflect an automated factory/transport system of sorts. This also creates a nice color transition as you progress toward the outdoor area in HL G. In addition, this makes sense because you will return to BMS C after the F section which uses the SAME warm lighting. No discrepancy will be created if cooler lighting is ONLY used for auxiliary areas and not by the tracks itself.

It seems like peoples’ core complaint about lighting comes from differences in mood between BMS OaR and HL OaR (i.e. less ominous). Unfortunately, nothing can really be done about this…the tone of BMS OaR has been irrevocably set by the dev both by the opening piano piece in A and the use of warmer lighting and warmer colors in general THROUGHOUT the chapter. Here, keeping consistency w/what has been established in BMS is much more important than restoring the mood of HL OaR because it requires too many changes that will make the B sections stand out (in a bad way), which is not the goal of this remake. A lot of people seem to look at your mods from the perspective that they are separate, standalone creations but they really need to look at how they fit w/in the context of the entire game. Even though BMS OaR may not be as scary as HL OaR, there are several other chapters, including Apprehension which retain the feel.

  1. Looks like you’re using the 180 deg rotation between B and C to place the HL maps. 90 deg can still be used which has the advantage of NO overlap between Apprehension and the BMS maps. It will likely require some mirroring of turns and/or extension of the tracks at certain points (especially in D and E) but it’s not really a big deal. I think you should finalize your decision once you’ve crudely mapped out the second ½ of D and E. F doesn’t contribute much to the spatial problem, since it’s small, but the design of G depends fundamentally on how you rotate the maps.

  2. Suggestions
    -In general refer to the pitch bible and images 9-10 in the gallery. I’m just going to cover some of the points I didn’t address in my next post.

Alright, cool. Glad that’s all straightened out. Now moving on…

  1. The magic of visgroups is that I can actually have both sets of lighting present in Hammer (set them up on my prefabs), and then through use of a magic toggle checkbox, switch between Black Mesa’s rusty red and HL1’s cold blue. While I agree the contrast may turn out to be too jarring in the end, we’ll see. I’ll stick with the blue for now, and, if it turns out later that it IS too jarring, and there’s a decent chance of that happening, it would require VERY little work to correct. At the end of the day the B maps are going to be very thematically different from the A maps anyway, so having a bit of difference in the lighting may not be too awful - but - again, it remains to be seen.

  2. 180 degrees is the best rotation, by far. Any other configuration places the C entrance in a very awkward position. 90 degrees clockwise will place the C entry in overlap with the tunnels from BM_B, making it very awkward to slot my geometry around. Rotating it 90 degrees anti-clockwise keeps the C entrance very close to the B exit, creating the hairpin problem which the rotation was trying to avoid. The overlap between Apprehension and OaR caused by the 180 degree rotation is so unbelievably ridiculously minor I will straight up call anyone who thinks it’s an issue a moron. You might be overestimating the extent of the overlap by a fair amount of you think it’s a problem.

  3. Your redesigns are too dramatic for my liking (not that they’re not useful as reference frames). Personally I want to stick fairly close to the HL1 designs - just with…a few cuts here and there. I like the design I’ve currently got, the only issue I have so far is deciding what to do with dynamite guy, as I’m not even sure I can realistically implement him.

General
-Based on your schematic, it looks like you are going to cut the lift in BMS B and add the net upward movement in your B1-B2 maps. You really don’t have to do this as your maps just need to be net neutral if the BMS B lift is kept. In HL, the movement from HL E-G is up, up, down. You can add a second down in E (by ramping down the tracks) in the “filler section.” Problem solved w/minimal modification of B.

-Think it’s too late to use Abrupt Awakening now. The piece was meant as an EXACT replacement for Sirens which played in HL’s A so it’s placement in the new B maps would be anachronistic. Note that Valve also drops the creepy, haunted theme after the HL A map as well which is another reason why this piece is inappropriate. For an ominous feel, Dark Drone would be better, but the only way I can see it working is in F, perhaps to accompany an HECU trap. Imagine all of the conveyor belts, etc. of the automated factory suddenly stopped w/the power going off and the area only illuminated by flickers…then you see HECU coming to attack you.

-Realistically though, I think there’s only 2 viable musical choices. My 1st choice is Soldiers Have Arrived for battle music. This piece is good for the HL E ambush toward the end of the section as the player is starting to get into HECU-controlled zones. Plus, the track also has a HL2 Ep1-2 feel toward the middle, which is cool. The only issue is that it’s a little long for the battle seen in HL so the battle in your E section would need to be extended a bit to accommodate the track, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. My 2nd choice would be a piano short for a puzzle in F to keep with the theme set by BMS.

-Someone mentioned wanting to see an HECU vs zombie scene in OaR. This has already been done in ST Uncut. A fresher approach would be having a pair of marines flush out all of the zombies in a room by throwing 3-4 GRENADES. This hasn’t been seen before in HL but would be cool to watch and makes up for the HECU not using enough grenades to flush the player out. This is best placed in the office complex but could also be introduced in the B sections.

-Generally speaking, instead of dramatically messing with the lighting here and in the A sections, you can alter it more naturally w/bullsquid spit, since it’s bioluminescent. Most of the tunnels you designed are kind of featureless and boring at this point in development (especially in A1). You can use the spit (and other fluids, like human, alien blood), corpses and gibs to tell a story.

2nd ½ of D
-Not sure if you were going to do a major cut here but I think you should keep it, both for the squid/sentry area and the supply room. Most importantly though, this map is useful because the length of the long segment can be used to DISPLACE the E map downwards (or in other directions) to create more room for an expanded G area later. You don’t have to copy the 90 deg turns in this section verbatim, just keep the long segment.

-The supply room here should be expanded a bit to accommodate the different enemy types. There’s a bullsquid, headcrab and a barnacle packed really close together which doesn’t make much sense. Why didn’t the barnacle eat the headcrab or squid and why didn’t the squid attack the headcrab?

-You don’t have to replicate the “Yore dead Freeman” sign here as it’s already been done in BMS I think. If not, “Your dead Freeman” is a better spelling. The only other sign that does need to be replicated is “Surrender Freeman.”

-At the end of this section are 3 marines who just stand there waiting for you which looks really stupid. Perhaps you could have them rappel down from a higher level or set up another type of ambush (e.g. coming out from a room). I favor the latter because I think rappelling behind moving crates would look fucking awesome in the F ambush to replace the weird shooting through boxes scene.

-You can add a non-functional crane here since there’s a claw in this area and in an earlier segment of D.

E
-Think you should stick w/my E schematic for the redesign (image 9 pitch bible). There’s nothing dramatically different about it as it’s essentially the same thing as HL E w/2 exceptions: 1) a convergent track early on which is necessary to use an RPG marine or TOW launcher BMS-style (i.e. destroys the tram). 2) the dynamite/C4 area becomes a mandatory segment and allows you to access an alternate tunnel where you can commandeer a tram from a marine (the most memorable part of E) and get to the marine ambush w/2 equally valid approaches. Not to toot my own horn here but this really is a close to flawless approach for keeping both fidelity to HL and working w/in BMS constraints.

-I think your redesign of the operable turntable is even more of a radical departure than what I’m proposing for E and there’s fewer justifiable reasons for doing so. You’re basically using my proposal w/2 alternate paths but displacing it AFTER the ambush whereas mine comes BEFORE. I think my proposal makes more sense because it actually makes the dynamite scene WORK (i.e. it’s mandatory and the explosion opens a hole in the wall leading to a tram that you can COMMANDEER. Your proposal doesn’t allow the latter scene to take place, which is one of the most iconic in HL OaR. Essentially, I’m making a departure from HL’s E using a much better rationale than what you’re using…unless you decided on this to circumvent some tram backtracking problem. For this issue, you should ideally recruit a programmer to help you fix it. It really sucks to make flawed design choices simply because the BMS devs didn’t have the foresight to pick up on this issue.

-Re: dynamite man…he shouldn’t be too hard to implement. My proposal basically gives the detonation purpose and I think you could do this in a way that’s similar to the car shop trap in ST Uncut’s G. Only this time, the player can CLIMB OVER the debris to access the new area. Again, if you swapped dynamite w/C4 detonated by remote satchel, you wouldn’t have to model the dynamite detonator or animate the marine to use it.

-As for the filler in the large loop, I think you should keep it. E is different from the other maps because there is more tram travel here than in any other map and the sense of travel is reinforced by having the player STAY ON the tram rather than having to get off frequently like in the office complex, which is mostly on foot. This is really the section that puts the player “On a Rail” and cuts here impact that feeling significantly. What you can do in the tram travel segments is use the parallel track design seen in BMS C (where the marines are on a tram shooting at you). This creates room to add very cool scripts for storytelling…there’s plenty to pick from in the pitch bible

-The large loop is also a great place to put a down-ramping section (for a net neutral change in height), which would help you from making unnecessary edits to the end of BMS B.

-At the vort encounter, where they are blockading the marines trapped by the boom gate switch, add a third STATIONARY marine BEHIND the tripmines to engage the 2 vorts deeper in the corridor (they don’t really do anything in HL). The 2 marines by the boom gate switch could be busy fighting several vorts that spawn on the lower tracks to explain why they weren’t helping him.

-A security room w/monitors can be introduced by the marine ambush showing them reinforcing the surface rocket area post priming.

F
-The E map is pretty packed with action so I think it’s appropriate to break this up at the beginning of the F map w/a complex puzzle on the level of (or slightly simpler) than the power puzzle in BMS A. This replaces the rather uninspired power box obstacles at the beginning of this segment.

-As this is a small map, you can SIGNIFICANTLY expand the vertical space here to showcase a Mat. Trans./factory like theme as well as expand the rail system above and below the player (logistically, the latter would need to be done in the non-looped areas). This is another good eye candy section and things that you can include: 1) more automated crate moving apparatuses 2) conveyer belts, perhaps carrying rocket parts 3) loader bots moving stuff around because quite frankly, they look fucking cool and are only used once in HL. They can be grimed up to match the feel of OaR.
-Have the marines that shoot through boxes instead ambush the player by rapelling down from a higher floor. Again this looks awesome and adds a little more variety to this section.

-The power box obstacles on the upper floor can be retained to keep fidelity w/HL, as they represent a significant stretch of this map.

G
-My G map schematic (image 10 pitch bible) is really nothing more than a sketch…it can be as dramatically different from HL or as undramatic as you like. The only things I’d like to keep are the skybox elements (e.g. Apache flying toward Apprehension, Ospreys deploying troops, etc.) for storytelling purposes. Don’t use any harriers or mantas though…these surprises should be introduced in ST.

-A lot of my suggestions which deal w/expanding the Mat. Trans theme in F can also be used here.

-Keep the zombie sentry trap ambush either here or ported to an upper floor of F as it’s pretty memorable.

-Do add an outdoor tram travel section because traveling on a tram outdoors is novel and fun (like driving in HL2 and beyond).

-If you are going to add a lake in the outdoor vista section (I think this is iffy because of space issues), use Lake Mead as a reference. The BMS hydroelectric dam is modeled after the Hoover Dam, which supplies water to this lake (I used to live in Vegas and have been to both places).

-A fun script could be placed in the distance w/5-6 vorts engaging an Apache.

-The one MUST DO in this section is to make sure that the end of G terminates indoors to facilitate a smooth transition to BMS C. Once the player gets indoors, you can have a dynamite trap cover the previous area w/debris. This accounts for the laser dynamite trap in G and prevents any tram backtracking problems.

-Don’t forget the sniper and make him easy to kill w/either MP5 grenades (preferable since you’ve killed him already w/grenades and RPG in ST) or hand grenades.

Cutting the lift on B is absolutely 100% the best move to make, by miles. Unless you want the lift at the end of B to be IDENTICAL to the one found at C’s entrance; by all means. I don’t even know why you’re opposing this. And you called Someguy a contrarian.

I wasn’t planning on using Abrupt Awakening, and I dislike Soldiers Have Arrived, so I wouldn’t worry about them being out of place. If I use any musical piece, which I have no plan to, it’ll be Office Complex at some point during the F segment.

You can’t make soldiers throw grenades. It’s an AI routine. Hence that idea wouldn’t work. It’s why I had to alter the ambush on C2A5G in the first place.

D

The long tunnel at the end of D and its associated features are being kept, in place of B’s lift. Just like in HL1. They’re going to be attached to the altered B map.

E

I don’t like the convergent tram or the player’s tram being destroyed. That little special occasion should be saved for BM’s C map.

I’m not “basically” using your proposal, nor is changing the segment I want to for a tram turntable “unjustifiable” as you’ve said. Literally the only functional difference this makes is that the connected tunnel is moved slightly to the right, so it’s connected to the big room instead of running around it. That change is so minimal, I again can’t believe you’re speaking against it. It also has no affect on the dynamite scene whatsoever, so I’ve got no idea why you brought that up.

I’m also intent on cutting the first loop, as it’s unnecessarily long. The entire thing is structured in a figure of 8 anyway, to give a better sense of travel I can simply add an interesting tunnel AFTER the first loop, it solves the problem in a much tidier and less tedious fashion. It will also convey an ACTUAL sense of travel, so players don’t just wind up feeling like they’re taking unnecessarily long routes, which they do if I leave the loops at HL1 size. The difference is, it wasn’t so bad in HL1 as you were spiralling upwards around the rocket - but it would be bad in BM given the layout.

Also:

“It really sucks to make flawed design choices simply because the BMS devs didn’t have the foresight to pick up on this issue.”

While I’ve come over time to find a certain (albeit small) charm in your bluntness and not caring about others’ perception of you, I thought I’d point out that this is a SERIOUSLY dickish thing to say. It’s insulting to me, and it’s insulting to the Black Mesa Devs, and I don’t think either of us really deserve that. I’m all for honesty and a degree of bluntness, don’t get me wrong, but being a dick just makes people more likely to ignore what might otherwise be totally agreeable points.

F

Doesn’t need to be discussed a great deal, as we’ve established by now I’m pretty much gonna keep this section true to HL1, aside from adding maybe one interesting new scene on the long, empty straight before the electricity section. The Marines shooting through boxes has been replicated in spirit on my A2 map, so I’m sure I can do something unique and interesting here, and doing something with rapelling does sound like a cool idea.

G

As most of my G map will be set outdoors of course there’ll be outdoor tram travel. I think it’s a great idea too.

And yes, OF COURSE G will terminate indoors. If I’m planning on not editing C at all I have to make the end of G identical to the tunnel at the beginning of C. In order for that to work I have to change said tunnel and elevator at the end of B, which works out perfectly as B is the only map from BM I’m editing. See now why I’ve done that?

“If you are going to add a lake in the outdoor vista section (I think this is iffy because of space issues)”

I’m just gonna say this one more time to make it clear to EVERYONE here.

There. Are. No. Space. Issues. The space to the right of the schematic is totally free, open real estate. No space issues. No maps encroach on that area. Putting a lovely vista here will not cause any problems whatsoever. Everybody, please take note.

The Sniper will be easy to kill. It’s the first one, gotta make it easy enough for the player.

Hope this clears up some concerns.

Edit 2: Figure I might as well post a quick progress update. It’s been a slow week, as I promised, and so far no extra work has been done. The only thing I have done (which was quite difficult, actually), is I’ve now got the B map into a 100% playable state. I’ve fixed up all the occluders and areaportals and all the weirdness that accompanies decompilation, so that aside from the opening (which now links in from A2), everything else should be identical to BM’s B. As I now have a B map with an altered opening and NOTHING ELSE, I am now free to save this as a separate version to be shipped with OaR Uncut Lite. All the work involved there is dealt with. Now I am free to rotate the skybox elements 180 degrees, and start modifying the end tunnel of B to match the long tunnel found on D. Nice.

I would prefer to see a squad marines surrounded by zombies and fighting for their lives… or at least some zombies coming out of the offices and engaging the marines…

Someguy IS a contrarian. You can easily tell by most of the shit he writes that he hasn’t played through HL OaR and then he goes on patrolling peoples’ arguments and disagreeing w/them when he’s mostly arguing off ignorance. If B’s lift needs to be cut, then so be it…the argument makes sense.

The space issue is about realism rather than spatial orientation like B1-B2 slotting. Adding a lake by OaR creates a problem because it brings the relationship between OaR and the hydroelectric dam into question. Can you see the lake next to the river on the ST cliffside? Where exactly is the dam relative to OaR anyway? If the lake is small, can you see the tributary leading into the main river? Etc. Plus a large lake might also look unnatural in the outdoors even though desert lakes do occur.

I never said that the turntable was “unjustifiable” but I’m gonna say it here. I think your idea is pointless unless it’s to prevent some backtracking issue. The only functionally it serves is as follows: 1) provides alternate paths to the same location. You’re basically introducing a change to HL w/o any real justification but that being said, it could be integrated w/my proposal w/o any problems to extend the sense of nonlinearity. This is what my suggestion does: 1) provides alternate paths the same location 2) makes the dynamite sequence mandatory and functional by revealing two paths 3) preserves commandeering the tram sequence in CHRONOLOGICAL order (which you can’t do).

As for this horseshit you wrote, ask yourself: 1) did BMS devs introduce a fundamental tram glitch into their game? YES. 2) Are you making flawed/convoluted design choices as a result of this mistake? Probably YES in A1-A2 to prevent players from backtracking. NO based on what you said regarding the tram turntable issue, in which case the changes you’re suggesting are still inferior to mine based on functionality. I think in this case it is YOU who needs to grow thicker skin. I don’t know what you think my role is here, but I’m NOT your cheerleader, friend or some yes-man… I’m only here to help w/major design issues.

As for calling me a dick, perhaps you should ask yourself if you’re not being one as well? Over the course of ST Uncut and here, your attitude toward both myself and other posters has gotten progressively worse. Quite frankly, I don’t give a fuck how you feel about me but you need to check that shit at the door considering these are people who are here to help you. If you want to ignore my good suggestions because I’m a “dick,” feel free. It’s a stupid argument that will only come as a detriment to your mod, but ask yourself this question: if you were going to get upset over my opinions and are so set on maintaining OaR as is, then Why. The. Fuck. Did. You. Ask. For. Them? Quite frankly, it amazes me that you still have so many people following you after all this time.

You seem less like you’re giving feedback and constructive ideas and more like your trying to get it to be “Wangman’s OaR uncut - Built by TextFAMGUY1”

I think he has the right…heart/aspiration as everyone, if not stronger to retain HL1’s origins. Which is perfectly fine.

It’s just the way he presents himself, though intelligent, comes across as arrogant, rude and often condescending. It’s not my place to judge people, but I find discussion about topics works better when people can be respectful and polite rather than resorting to attacks and abuse like politicians.
Because for all the negatives, the posts generally have lots of substance and value.

But that’s neither here nor there I guess, in terms of what needs to be done.

On topic - I really do like the scary/chill lights just at the start of Apprehension and I’d love to see how you’ll make them work in OaR. Plus lie you said it’s a simple switch with a check box there, so that’s always awesome.
Also I like that you’re tidying up the loops. In HL1 OaR they just feel like loops for the sake of puzzles, but they don’t actually feel like they’re going somewhere, if you get me.

One last thing. You said HECU throwing grenades is an AI routine. Does this mean it’s impossible to script in grenade sections? (I’m not tech savvy, and sometimes clearly not that intelligent…).
Maybe as a possible substitute (if you’re open for opinions), you could have some sort of HECU trap set for the aliens?
Or have the HECU have a trap, but hound eyes coming in and either blowing themselves up by setting off explosives with their sonic attack, or using their sonic attacks in a way that backfires on the HECU’s trap, thus killing them (or both parties).
Not that important of a topic though since your fights so far have worked really well.

Not sure if that’s directed at me or someone else (I’m guessing me).
It’s not an attack per se, more so an observation. He doesn’t have to listen nor care about my opinion and as a forum I put it there knowing it’d be seen whether he agrees or not.
Believe me bud I don’t really like it either. But as I’ve been told by a mod before - It’s a forum and people are allowed to say what they like and it’s not reportable (which is partially why I received a ban, for incorrect reports on what I deemed unfit but in reality technically broke no rules).

Like I said discussions work better under polite conditions but once again as I’ve been told, it’s unrealistic to expect that from others even if I would like them too. But I think I’ve derailed the thread enough. Mods feel free to remove this if it’s out of line.

Said as if he won’t be able to read that

@BendyBread
I just don’t like the way this thread is going. It seems like we can’t go more than a couple posts before people start poking at Text or disagreeing and annoying each other. It all just feels like it’s put a very mildly aggressive tone to everything.

They’re generally very productive though. It seems they just clash whenever there’s a disconnect between Wangman’s vision and technical feasibility. He’s insulted by Text’s apparent dismissal of what is clearly the most desirable end result, while Text is insulted by Wangman’s apparent dismissal of the difficulty involved in what he does.

He does bring up some good points, but you can’t write posts with a “fuck you I’m right” mentality and expect them to listen to every word like the word of god, and I don’t see why he would do that if he wants these changes so bad, given the final design decisions aren’t even up to him. For all the thought he puts into his feedback, he doesn’t seem to put any of it into what you’d think would be common sense.

Not to fuel the fire, but I’d appreciate it if you not talk about me like that. Just for the record, I have played Half-Life: Source at least twice, Half-Life 4-5 times, Blue Shift 3-4 times, and Opposing Force 3-4 times. Just because I don’t adhere to HL1 exactly or view something differently doesn’t mean I haven’t played them.

I’ve been thinking this as well, but I didn’t want to start anything, especially considering Wang’s hostility toward me just for bringing my own thoughts to the table. I’ll admit Wang has helped a lot, just sometimes it seems like he’s trying to steer the project his own way.

And now something constructive so this seems post less flamey:[/SIZE]

When you get around to it Text, for consistency you might consider changing the gates in A to be more like the security gate at the end of Power Up.

Woah, looks like I struck a nerve here. Wasn’t expecting this much anger in your response. It does interest me how readily you are to resort to personal attacks when confronted, however.

Here’s the problem, you summarized it with your own words here - you say “I’m NOT your cheerleader, friend or yes-man,” as if that’s the only alternative to being blunt and rude - but it isn’t. It’s perfectly easy to give the exact same high quality of feedback you give without being rude about it, and frankly outright insulting both me and the BM Devs. I’m only human, I can only put up with it for so long. I don’t want or need you to kiss up to me, and that’s not what I was asking for when I posted that. If that REALLY upsets you so much, I don’t know what you’re still doing here. I do this work for free in my spare time, you help me out with suggestions in yours. Neither owes the other a damn thing. But it doesn’t hurt to at least treat each other courteously, does it?

As for the whole me being a dick thing, give it a rest. I’m always willing to listen to other opinions and I very often take the time out of my day to address them at length, as well as profusely thanking (you’ve even said it yourself before that I do this too much) people who have contributed greatly. As for asking why my attitude has supposedly degraded over time, that’s an excellent question whose answer you might be able to infer from what I’ve already been saying. I do find it amusing however that you indirectly define my attitude toward you getting “worse” as disagreeing with you, however, that’s pretty interesting.

I didn’t call you a dick either, I mentioned a specific instance where you were being a dick. Guess what? Everybody has those. Nobody’s perfect. I don’t actually think you’re a dick and I’ve said it before too. You’re just harsh, that’s all.

In other words, chill. I was perfectly calm and reasoned when I wrote that little sentence, there’s no need to get so aggressive. All I’m saying is, in the end, delivery counts. Don’t get me wrong, the content you deliver is top notch feedback - I’ve also said this on numerous occasions. But content isn’t everything, sadly - the way people read it affects their judgement of what you say, no matter how thick skinned they are. Why not just ease back on the harshness a little, to make that job a bit easier? If you don’t want to, whatever, carry on, leave forever, it’s all good. I’m not gonna tell you how to live your life, but I think conversations on here might be more productive that way. We’ll both live, either way.

Nah, that ain’t it.

This is a good way of putting it.

I’ll address other concerns a bit later, I’m kinda busy right now. I just figured I’d take the time out to address this fairly serious (and a tad silly) issue that’s arisen. We could do without the thread drama, in all honesty. I don’t like it.

I know this isn’t likely to happen but I would like to see one of the hecu firing squads actually execute the scientists (use the arrested citizen animation fro hl2 for them up against the wall). this would need to be in a location that the player can get to till later and would give the player a reason to go to said location. might be good drive to get to a point.

also an idea for the first 2 maps that might be more work than its worth (mainly do to the need for a voice actor and animations)
have a scientist in the switch station with the turret (hiding behind it). that warns the player of the road block ahead in a way simmiler to this.
“thank god a fellow scientist, listen if you are planning on going a head don’t thoughs grunts have executed every one in my division and from what I heard are heading this way.”
after moving to the office area replace the dead scientists that are lined up with live ones and make it so that no mater which direction the player comes from they can’t save them. (one way only hear the other see and hear). have one of the scientists from the line up alive but on the ground and hurt when the player gets there. they will tell the player to get to the security station to open the doors and that there is nothing they can do here.

line idea “freeman…if only you had been here sooner. listen get to the security station and get out of here… over riding that should allow you to continue to where ever you are going… ju—” (at this point a hecu grunt spawns and gets some shots in the scientist)

just a note on wangman: some of his feed back is good but most of it has that elitist I am the center of the world listen to me feel. If he keeps getting worst I would see if you could get him blocked from posting on the topic. but that’s me personally and I don’t think it can be done.[/SIZE]

I agree. This kinda thing didn’t happen during ST Uncut and it was a much more productive thread as a result. There’s no need for aggression here guys. I’ll make an effort to be more open minded and less grouchy even though I generally think I’m pretty alright. Let’s try and get along just a little bit better, it’s good for everybody in the long run. I’m not trying to mini-mod here, but the aggression really just puts a sour damper on the entire discussion of the project as a result, which really isn’t necessary. It shouldn’t be too difficult to not start flaming each other at the drop of a hat.

Leaving this silly little episode behind, I’ll address some of the concerns raised here relevant to the game.

Lighting - yeah I’m interested to see how it’ll turn out as well. Right now I’m 50/50. It could go either way. I figure it’s best to trial the cold lighting first as we all know that the red rusty warm lighting will work just fine, as it’s present throughout the rest of Black Mesa. It makes sense in this instance to try the alternative first. I am going to be very flexible on this one, and I will be swayed A LOT by community opinion on this issue.

As far as I can tell, it is not possible to make the Marines throw grenades when you want them to. The ThrowGrenadeAtTarget input does not seem to exist for Marines in Black Mesa, which is weird because it exists for HL2:EP2 Combine, whose AI the Marines are based on. I may be wrong, but so far I’ve seen absolutely zero evidence to the contrary.

While it would be more consistent, I do think my design for the toll gates (or whatever the heck they’re called!) looks a fair bit better - not to mention much closer to HL1’s design. I’m not sure it’s a particularly big issue, in all honesty - I don’t think it’s something most people will notice, and those that do probably won’t care about it. We’ll see! I might change it if enough people ask for it.

The execution idea is something I might try and dabble in. Having similar scenes twice in one chapter though might be overdoing it a little, but that remains to be seen. As for the whole adding NPCs with interaction thing, my gut instinct is to really try hard to avoid having any friendly NPCs at all on OaR Uncut, for a number of reasons. The dialogue simply isn’t there, it would require me to edit scenes.image which creates compatibility problems, and there weren’t any throughout most of HL1’s OaR which helped contribute to the sense of loneliness and isolation. I was initially planning on having survivors hiding on the top floor of A2’s Office Complex but I later decided against it for that reason. Again, I’m a little on the fence about this idea so it is something I may potentially remedy in future versions if enough people think having friendly NPCs there is a good idea, but for now I’m steering clear.

Text, have you decided anything about the cafeteria yet? I’m kinda fixated to the damn thing now.
Not to push it down your throat, but did you think about what I suggested yesterday?
P.S.:

It was fucking hilarious yesterday when I called him out on his unwarranted self-importance and asked him to tone it down.[/SIZE]

Apologies - my contributions to this thread has been fragmented as I’ve been very busy IRL.

My solution to the cafeteria area will likely be to implement the diagram I drew a few pages back. This should roughly half the space so that I don’t have to have so many tables. I will tone down the tables as you and others have suggested as they were a tad excessive given the size of the complex - but I just put those there to take up the vast empty space. Of course, once I add that wall there’ll be less space so I won’t need all those tables to take it up.

Adding loads of household items and stuff seems like a pretty good idea and a nice way to grunge that area up. It will certainly make the area seem more interesting overall. I can do a fair amount to add variety to that place.

As for the plants I quite like em. I’ll probably keep them. As you said, they can grow down there and/or the player could just assume they’re fake. With the lighting toned down a bit (CERTAINLY going to happen), they shouldn’t look as healthy and ridiculously bright as they do now.

EDIT: Forgot to clarify - the diagram involves me basically cutting a diagonal line across the space above the cafeteria at a 45 degree angle, kind of like it was in HL1. Allows me to keep the curve, like you said, and shorten the space above.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.