Then again the lighting isn’t too big a deal for me. Hopefully others might have better suggestions.
(damnit, sorry for the double post)
I guess leave what you currently have as-is, I think it looks realistic. Maybe everyone went down there & set up that cafeteria as a base following the Resonance Cascade.
Or don’t add lighting, instead make this room dark… maybe with some occasional flashing (defect lamp) and sparks… will look good then from outside/elsewhere… a real desolated underground rail-station deep under black mesa…
At the very end of On A Rail and the very start of Apprehension, there’s a short tunnel you take that’s designed and lit differently from the rest of OAR. If you’re worried about consistancy, you could design it after this segment. I’d support that 100%, especially since those tunnels (while brief), look nice.
I took some screenshots of the area, you could take a quick look at it and see if it’s close to what you have in mind, or what you would like to do:
I’ll also like it if the light scheme changes to a colder blueish color and basing it on the Apprehension tunnels will help with consistency. It will keep things interesting. It will also look very b-e-a-u-tiful with the night time vista I’m soooo looking forward to. Just make sure that the transition to the new color scheme isn’t too sudden like LieutenantSkully mentioned!
Unless there is an in-universe reason for the different lighting, such as more blue fluorescent lights or something, I’d keep the BM lighting. I’m not against changing the whole Chapter’s lighting, but only one or two maps? It’d look odd and lack cohesion.
So, if you go for it, it should be an active, newer part of the rail system. Someguy’s suggestion looks good: the reason for that part of the tracks being blueish is that it is a newer, active part of the facility. There’s the advanced tram and everything. If your B map is supposed to be newer, go ahead. If not, I support using the orange lighting.
Also, the G map is completely recreated in Black Mesa, albeit a bit differently. The sniper is no longer there, and the wall that leads to the rocket launch map is is gone; but the area itself is there in BM. Are you really going to intrude on BM’s design, for the sake of a new outdoor vista and large-scale battle, instead of just adding missing parts? How are you going to make that work? In Black Mesa, that part is willingly different; it’s certainly not cut.
Also, your sketch shows that the outdoor vista is from the direction that the rocket area is; if it really must be done there, it should come from the sniper-side. The other three sides are occupied: you came from one of them (HECU), you are going towards another (rocket area), and finally you will leave the area towards the final one.
Re lighting: I don’t mind a change in the lightning. I really think that overall the original On A Rail was very much meant to be one of the creepier chapters of half-life. It’s sort of hard to tell nowadays looking back on it, but at the time it was scary and very atmospheric. You had debris falling from the tunnel roofs which already gave you a claustrophobic feeling, weird alien sounds heard when entering certain halls, the zombie, vort and marine ambushes, taunt messages written in blood etc.
The BM version did a really good job of recreating this feeling when you’re initially lowered down into the chapter to the first map. I wouldn’t be against continuing this eerie theme lightly later on. The tunnels aren’t meant to be a place that you really want to be at all. It should feel like a relief when you make it to the surface again. Dim lighting or flickering lights is a good start. Think of HL2 Episode 1. By the time you make your way to the surface you’re damn glad to be out of there and it’s mostly due to the lighting that you’ve been fighting in.
It doesn’t have to be all over, but it wouldn’t hurt to have a hallway or room or two that are initially dark until you flip an emergency power box, drop some flares, a nightvision goggle marine vs vortiguant battle starts up etc. There’s really a lot of creative things you could do with the lighting and electricity in this chapter.
https://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/halflife2/episodeone/lowlife/20.jpg
https://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/halflife2/episodeone/lowlife/31.jpg
https://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/halflife2/episodeone/lowlife/54.jpg
https://www.visualwalkthroughs.com/halflife2/episodeone/lowlife/57.jpg
If I’m not mistaken, this map will come after the rocket priming (Black Mesa’s B map), and at the end of the first tunnel after the rocket prime is a turntable elevator. He could have the elevator take you from the warm red lit area to a cold blue lit area. The only problem is that at some point you need to go back to the red lit in BM’s C map (Rocket Launch). He’d need to be more worried about the transition back look not too jarring. Perhaps after the outdoor near the end, you’ll re-enter the tunnels where you see red lighting again? It’s Text’s choice on how to reintroduce red lighting.
I’m not sure if it’s newer or older, it’s difficult to tell, really. Most of OAR seems to be in good shape, yet entire tunnels have collapsed as well. This section has some rubble on the tracks in 2 places, and the tram on it goes haywire as well.
While that’s true, I think Text’s planned outdoor vista is going to replace the outdoor segment on the old G map, and the tunnel being recreated is no big deal since most of the chapter is tunnels. I don’t see it as intruding on the design at all, if all goes as planned, Half-Life OAR has 2 surface sections, and BM OAR will have 2 surface sections. Keep in mind, HL’s maps are just a base, things are subject to change as they are needed.
What I mean is, that map is recreated in BM, and fused with the next one. This wouldn’t be adding cut sections; this would be changing a willingly differently designed Black Mesa map.
If anything, add an outdoor vista in the previous HECU ambush that is a tunnel in BM; at least, it’s just a tunnel. But the next area is beautifully designed by the BM devs, with roads, a little car park and everything around the rocket. The HL area with the sniper and the soldiers speaking IS there (thoug no sniper); it’s just that the wall between that area and the rocket area is gone, and the maps thus fused together. Changing that to two different areas with a new Surface Tension cliffside-type outdoor vista and a battle is intruding into Black Mesa’s maps.
While I cannot play Black Mesa anymore due to my Compaq finally dying I have to agree with Artic Xiongmao.
I thought that Text was talking about an entirely new vista/location and not a redesign of a redesign.
I think Black Mesa’s version of the area is greatly improved over Half-Life’s- to replace such a wonderfully redesigned area- to be honest really ticks me off. And it’s the first time than anything by you Text has come anywhere near to ticking me off.
I must say though that everything else looks really flipping fantastic.
You completely misunderstood, nothing is being replaced here. The problem is that the outside portion of the G map was done in Black Mesa as the Rocket Launch area, but Text wants to do an nice outdoor vista (presumably) in place of HL’s G. Basically we’re arguing over whether it’s okay to add an area (though redesigned) that technically exists already.
I’d still say no.
I think much less needs to be changed in OAR than in Surface Tension. The surface stuff especially in Black Mesa’s OAR is great…actually looking back in another tab …at Texts diagram that is of HL’s G it is the external area that already exists in BM’s map.
The BM team turned that sniper courtyard…rocket launch section into a huge more open area with one large area instead of 2 much smaller ones minus the sniper.
And essentially that seems to be where Text wants to put his vista if what I’m seeing and your saying is correct.
Now I want to see Text’s vista as much as anyone else…but is there really nowhere else it can be put?
Or is he adding a G-Vista on top of what Black Mesa improved so much?
P.S. it’s 2 A.M. as I’m typing this so if I’ve got it entirely wrong please don’t bother with it.
I don’t know where he intends to put the vista, I only assumed it would be the G map’s location because that’s where the outdoor section was in the first game. All I can really do is reiterate that he is not replacing any of Black Mesa’s maps or locations, only expanding them on separate maps that fit in between BM’s maps.
He’s replacing half of the rocket outdoor area (the tram and truck park, that equals the Sniper+Speaking soldiers area), with a newer, bigger area, and separating each half, leaving a smaller HL1-style rocket area, presumably. That IS a replacement.
That is, at least, what’s been implied. If he’s doing that new outdoor area, and then the whole next rocket map as it is in Black Mesa, including the truck-park where the soldiers are talking (but now without the soldiers, which would be earlier), it won’t intrude into Black Mesa’s design… much. If it’s not done with great care, it could mess up the fantastic road design there, though.
Yeah I’m sure that’s right.
Anyhow…I’ll rejoin the conversation tomorrow.
Funny how I’m becoming more involved in the thread for the one I won’t get to play for goodness knows how long.
Keep up the good work Text.
Look, visually, this is what I’m saying:
This is how I understood he’s doing it, and how not to do it, in my opinion, because it redesigns half of the Black Mesa rocket area:
This is how I’d do it, if the new outdoor area and battle really needs to be there:
This way, the Black Mesa rocket map wouldn’t be affected.
I don’t recall any discussion about replacing anything, we’ll have to see what he says when he gets back, that’ll clear it up.
Please look at my two sketches. One replaces part of it, one doesn’t. He implied earlier in the discussion that he’s doing it HL1-style: two outdoors areas separated by a wall, except the first (soldiers+sniper) will be bigger and with a battle. But both those maps are recreated in BM. They are fused together, and there is no wall, but they are there.
So, if he creates a whole new area before the new BM-style fused rocket area, that’s fine by me. But that’s certainly not how I understood it. In this sketch of his, the yellow-marked HL1 G map is the one that’s getting the redesign; but that’s part of BM already, albeit without a wall between that area and the rocket area.
AAAND you guys have misread the schematic horribly by VERY BADLY misinterpreting where the actual C map’s vista is. You’ve also done what was happening earlier by putting words into my mouth about how I plan to redesign that section. So, in conclusion, a pretty serious waste of time, if I’m honest. It would have been far more sensible to ask me to clarify it before you started drawing up schematics about how to make the redesign work.
I’m surprised it’s been so badly misinterpreted. I clearly stated that the Hammer grid represents the B/C design, and it’s blatantly obvious from looking at the image that only a VERY SMALL segment of the design overlaps onto said Hammer grid, and that’s just due to the lack of precision of the photoshop mockup. I don’t intend on replacing ANYTHING on C, I don’t know how or why people suddenly started getting this idea, especially considering I’ve stated on multiple occasions that I’m not planning on touching C.
G wasn’t remade in BM C. Some areas were replicated in spirit but it was mostly original work by the devs. Me remaking G outdoors doesn’t hurt in the slightest, and it certainly doesn’t overlap OR cut into the existing C design. Really weird that you guys latched onto that.
The green area is BM’s outdoor segment and isn’t overlapped at all by my design. I don’t know why you guys were “freaking out” so much over something you weren’t even sure of yet.
If you reverse over a level transition in a tram, a coding bug makes the tram behave very erratically. Hence I have to prevent ALL backtracking via tram, which is a pain in the arse.
Thanks, Someguy, that’s an excellent source of inspiration and a great frame or reference for a more HL1-ish lighting scheme. Hadn’t considered that area as a frame of reference. I’ll attempt to use this style of lighting for the mat trans sections but if it is too jarring I can always revert to BM’s style of lighting thanks to the magic of visgroups.
No. The first 3 images are JUST the HL1 schematics. HL’s G on the composite connects to C via the little pink square on the Hammer grid.
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Nah, this design’s much closer to HL’s E. I haven’t quite decided what to do about the dynamite yet, as it’s an absolute bastard to implement.
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Rather than you going into that great storage room area and hitting a switch to open the toll gate, the path is blocked by debris or something. I have the player moving into the room onto a turntable, and they’re able to operate it to make themselves face the next path. Both the green and red paths lead to the same area, and can have slightly different scripts, but nothing else.
Well, you still maintain that G wasn’t remade in BM C… I just cannot agree, as I’ve shown in those quick sketches, but oh well. If you’re not going to alter the BM map itself, that’s fine by me, certainly.