On A Rail Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

The problem with that one is that the turntable is no longer level with the track connecting it to the silo entry.

Why is that a problem?

You can see in the map that the track connects from the silo door to the turntable. It won’t be on the same level if you change one.

[COLOR=‘Red’]Just gonna point out for anyone who didn’t see it that back on page 43 I posted an update showcasing some current progress and issues on the B maps. If you want, go back and read it, and feel free to comment!

There are problems with both solutions, though I appreciate you two spending time trying to come up with a way of solving this annoying layout issue. Chickenprot’s idea, while very creative and potentially a very clever solution to this problem - has the issue of, as pointed out, making the turntable room not line up with the other routes on the map, which, as I already said, I’m not sure I’m willing to sacrifice due to the amount of cohesion it adds. And Someguy, I think your idea’s a little too complicated/dramatic, though there are some potential interesting applications to some of the ideas you’ve put forth.

It’s a shame because the layout works so damn well in every other way (at least in my opinion) I was really pleased with it until this flaw reared its ugly head.

The proposed solutions have certainly given me some food for thought on potentially interesting ways to solve the problem, but as RK pointed out, it might not actually be as big a problem as I think it is. So far I’ve considered it a big enough problem that whenever I go to work on a section, I kinda demotivate myself by thinking “Ah, I just might have to redo this section again because of the layout flaw, what’s the point in working on it?” Maybe this is wrong. Would you guys care in particular if my setup had it so you went TOWARDS the enemy tram rather than had it run alongside you (like in HL1)? Is it a big deal?

If not, I’ll probably go with solution A with a hint of layout reshuffling to solve my problem. The biggest problem this solution poses is that if the player sets the track to be straight before going there, they’ll skip the enemy tram scene entirely. This could be fixed with a compromise:

I could actually have a dual script approach (BOTH A AND B) - one for if the player first heads straight towards the turntable room (the enemy tram appears along the alternate path, which, with a bit of shuffling, could have a second home somewhere rather than where I want the lift to be) and one for if the player first heads round in a circle on the loop (enemy tram from the “track to nowhere”).


In other news, I said I’d address some things which were being said earlier, so I will.

The LAV is potentially a very neat little solution to spruce things up a little bit from using the 50 Cal over and over again, I like it. I’d be a little reluctant to add it in though, for story reasons. I’m okay with introducing the Sniper into OaR Uncut, because that’s when they were introduced in HL1. But LAVs first appeared in Surface Tension in HL1, which is significantly later on in the game. I’m not sure if putting an LAV on OaR would be taking too many liberties with HL1’s story or not. I’m very on the fence about this idea, as a result. It works well in every other sense - but this is important enough that I’m not sure I’d be happy to do it.

I’m not sure whether I can include the destroyed turntable elevator or not. I’m planning on setting all of F on the surface now, so there may not be anywhere particularly appropriate for it to go. As for driving it of the edge were I to include it - that shouldn’t be too tricky to do.

As for the area between trams, we’ll have to wait and see. I don’t know how that area will be laid out yet due to the problems already mentioned.

We’ve been over this before for sure, but I guess I’ll say it one last time. The Snipers and the Zombie Ambush will be recreated. Please don’t ask me again. The dynamite soldier will be implemented in spirit by them blocking your access path with explosives to the rocket launch pad immediately after you prime it. This in part explains why you have to take such a long detour to get to the rocket and also helps to make the HECU seem less useless. As for HECU vs Headcrabs, probably not.

Heh. Sounds busy. I’m not exactly keen on developing OaR Uncut in the middle of MY final year dissertation or essay month either, but here I am! I hope it turns out to be worth it in the end.

Well the second edit I had put in relied on the tram going to the player actually. 'Tis all good, I’d like that actually, it may make things a bit more tense for the player.

You’d still need to attempt to connect the tunnels together at some point if that is the case. Could we get a side-view of the grid? It might help with brain storming if you feel like it.

As for what Someguy pointed out, he’s right with the lay out with regards to my idea, it’s a problematic part of it that I didn’t realize till now, but it could be used with a little refining. Moving the ramp for going down/up to the beginning (the first junction has the slant in this case) and lowering the whole thing to accommodate it could work (while adding another ramp going back up and make it level with the rest of it at some point). It’s really up to you.

Edit: Let me put together another shitty mspaint…

Edit #2:
And done:

Orange=ramp
Red=moved section

This is all contingent on if you can move it up or down though. Once the room is moved, you can use the part of the semi-circle that’s nearest to the back door I was talking about for the snake or utilize the new puzzle I was talking about for the mat-trans crane room. You’d prolly have to separate up the main and the alt path as well for this to work properly as well.

Edit #3: I just realized… you can also add in a broken elevator or elevators (similar to the one at the beginning of A2) in the long crane room if you go with the puzzle, it could add in more aesthetics for the room.

And #4: I know you’re happy with the lay out, but there’s a little dilemma concerning the dual tracks, I know you want the current lay out, but how do you want the commandeering scene to go? Because looking at it now, you’d have to make the player come from the upper portion of the track first, open the toll gates, then go through the loop to get to the other side like Half-Life’s OAR if it’s how I think it should go.

That was the other problem with HalfLife’s design of this section; you were expected to commandeer the enemy tram, leaving your own to wherever it went. I actually realized that as opposed to halflife, walking the tracks isn’t actually that big a deal here, since the rails aren’t naturally electrified.

So I’m inclined to go back slightly on what I said earlier; maybe we should make it so that the player can’t exit the loop at all. That’s how half-life did it.

Or as an alternative idea that I had, consciously steer the player into the trambush (geddit?). So let’s say that the route was set to straight while they are opening the gate. They get back on their track and start coming up to the junction… Unexpectedly the track switches to go left, sending the player hurdling towards the enemy tram instead.

Whether or not at that point the player would then be able to reset the track to straight is up to you.

@Text that sounds fine to me honestly I wouldn’t mind if the tram with the soldier is going past you in the opposite direction or not. Those screenies look nice I really like the dynamite room it looks a lot like that original area from half-life.

When you say the tunnel to no where do you mean it’s really just going to be a track that ends? Maybe you could add some sort of rail lift like we see in the start of your A2 map so we can assume the soldier on the tram came up or down on that instead of out of nowhere.

Continuation Of Feedback For OaR Uncut Alpha

  1. Can this raised wall texture be replaced with one that extends to the metal frame, still utilizing a slanted end https://i.imgur.com/aesvceV.jpg? On the opposite side, also use a slanted end to match, instead of a flat end https://i.imgur.com/aNLvpys.jpg
  2. Across from the tram elevator HECU encampment, consider centering this light https://i.imgur.com/ly8SlBM.jpg and adding a light on the other side of the branching tunnel, for consistency https://i.imgur.com/vb5SpbP.jpg
  3. These lights are clipping into the wall, in varying degrees:
    a) Leading into the rocket engine room https://i.imgur.com/ACP3zBm.jpg
    b) Adjacent to the office area tracks https://i.imgur.com/buT53dM.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/6HkcfWi.jpg
    c) In the corner, diagonally across from the bathrooms https://i.imgur.com/dfyCRvi.jpg
    d) In the office that’s under construction https://i.imgur.com/8gGOa6t.jpg
    e) This light https://i.imgur.com/sqtDb0Q.jpg situated here https://i.imgur.com/yPvvHoX.jpg
    f) These two in the dead-end hallway outside the “Rail Security Override” office. This one https://i.imgur.com/BreR3aC.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/W465atD.jpg and this one https://i.imgur.com/ppDToQL.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/uooIlm9.jpg
    g) Above the large window of the “Rail Security Override” office, hallway side https://i.imgur.com/GQIroXk.jpg
    h) Stairwell light, outside the “Rail Security Override” office https://i.imgur.com/MbGapHv.jpg found here https://i.imgur.com/SZPKplA.jpg
    i) This light https://i.imgur.com/pk2gUTG.jpg situated here https://i.imgur.com/SPEVEIJ.jpg.
    j) This tunnel light, leading to the electrified water https://i.imgur.com/U2E47sy.jpg
    k) Both lights on the wall https://i.imgur.com/f8SNbHH.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/iuEnpXA.jpg found here https://i.imgur.com/8ToRUYC.jpg
    l) The defective light https://i.imgur.com/eJA89bm.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/KurP8Yv.jpg
    m) Here, just past the tram elevator HECU encampment https://i.imgur.com/a3yKQvO.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/cLCsPGU.jpg
    n) This light here https://i.imgur.com/ZavjGvq.jpg above the tram elevator HECU encampment
    o) In the rocket engine room, here https://i.imgur.com/wrj5k7l.jpg
    p) Also https://i.imgur.com/khrAznh.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/LFtLIRy.jpg
  4. These lights need to be positioned further/deeper into the wall, as they’re partially detached (yeah, go ahead and “clip” 'em):
    a) The first light at the start of c2a2a1 https://i.imgur.com/pZXLAD5.jpg pictured here https://i.imgur.com/pP3BxRn.jpg
    b) This one https://i.imgur.com/McriRe3.jpg the second light from the start of c2a2a1, here https://i.imgur.com/mS0pxBE.jpg
    c) Further ahead, this one https://i.imgur.com/rFOLhFb.jpg found here https://i.imgur.com/ggBtOzp.jpg
    d) The immediate next light https://i.imgur.com/Gve58uu.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/D058EXG.jpg
    e) And here https://i.imgur.com/dAq4mKM.jpg situated here https://i.imgur.com/BX6txKf.jpg
    f) The immediate next light https://i.imgur.com/AQIHJpw.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/WbalK3P.jpg
    g) Further on, here https://i.imgur.com/dmF7Rj9.jpg. It’s the tunnel light seen on the right https://i.imgur.com/hEAVcSL.jpg
    h) The immediate next light https://i.imgur.com/9p71CkA.jpg found here https://i.imgur.com/hTBLuqv.jpg
    i) This one https://i.imgur.com/AVR8wPG.jpg located on the right, two lights past the arcing wire over the tracks.
    j) The immediate next light https://i.imgur.com/kFmspix.jpg located here https://i.imgur.com/k7acGQF.jpg
    k) And just past the crane/rail switch https://i.imgur.com/lc7Ts4Z.jpg found here https://i.imgur.com/sFK1oP9.jpg
    l) Also this one https://i.imgur.com/EsptS9E.jpg situated here https://i.imgur.com/uoMClzp.jpg
    m) As does this one https://i.imgur.com/OhJn5KF.jpg
    n) Here https://i.imgur.com/S2gnFBs.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/gydFQaE.jpg both from this curved wall https://i.imgur.com/YwEwUwQ.jpg
    o) This defective tunnel light https://i.imgur.com/ExWHIHI.jpg leading to the electrified water https://i.imgur.com/IfZyQfz.jpg
    p) In the dead end tunnel across from the tram elevator HECU encampment, the second https://i.imgur.com/zF5mNlG.jpg and third https://i.imgur.com/Ctji5qi.jpg right side lights.
  5. This type of light needs to be slightly raised, so that their circular texture discs contact the ceiling:
    a) This one https://i.imgur.com/DqiYNHz.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/ofSJrU6.jpg. It’s found here https://i.imgur.com/PeBBz6Y.jpg.
    b) These three lights have the same issue https://i.imgur.com/F3JLbaO.jpg
    c) As well as all four in the security office https://i.imgur.com/9axtiU9.jpg
    d) The two located here https://i.imgur.com/DHdnU72.jpg are floating in mid air https://i.imgur.com/6xF5k73.jpg
    e) The two just past the security gates, here https://i.imgur.com/bvM8cOT.jpg and here https://i.imgur.com/jIXaF6p.jpg
  6. Can this I-beam https://i.imgur.com/BAYRdRs.jpg be moved back to conceal this texture seam? https://i.imgur.com/Rmu12Xp.jpg
  7. This steel arch https://i.imgur.com/hWD4dQ3.jpg is clipping into the blast door https://i.imgur.com/H6F4jY0.jpg
  8. Were the eight lights at this end of the water filled tunnel, purposely angled and clipped into the wall for a desired look or effect? Here https://i.imgur.com/eoV1Odb.jpg and here https://i.imgur.com/0RhqqqR.jpg. Is it a case where this end of the tunnel originally had a curved ceiling, like the opposite end, and the orientation of these lights were not adapted to the new square ceiling design?
  9. Can this wall texture seam, in the “Rail Security Override” office, be better aligned? https://i.imgur.com/AKBYLEy.jpg
  10. Can the shadows be removed from these snack machines https://i.imgur.com/NIY3iNa.jpg since the soda machines don’t have any? https://i.imgur.com/fyH2oLc.jpg
  11. The following handrails have texture z-fighting issues. Usually, both upper and lower rails are affected:
    a) These ones, found here https://i.imgur.com/L5oLbTF.jpg. See attached pictures 1 and 2 below. For the same handrail set, to the right of this post, upper rail only https://i.imgur.com/OYsotgt.jpg and to the left of this post, upper rail only https://i.imgur.com/gFfDOm9.jpg
    b) In the cafeteria area https://i.imgur.com/sm6Ykuv.jpg. See attached pictures 3 and 4 below.
    c) Also this set https://i.imgur.com/Ju3WYQG.jpg here https://i.imgur.com/tIXvAFS.jpg here https://i.imgur.com/UZcgZ8E.jpg and here https://i.imgur.com/lJii6yZ.jpg
    d) This railing set https://i.imgur.com/iqrouHQ.jpg here https://i.imgur.com/XCJoIzC.jpg to the right of this post, upper rail only https://i.imgur.com/qZI9vKU.jpg to the left of this post, upper rail only https://i.imgur.com/kwtXktV.jpg and to the left of this adjacent post https://i.imgur.com/NECaYpm.jpg
    e) And this set https://i.imgur.com/J3OR6kL.jpg two separate instances here https://i.imgur.com/HECGTI8.jpg and two separate instances here https://i.imgur.com/tZRNpb6.jpg
    f) In this area https://i.imgur.com/5fSyyHD.jpg to the left of this post, upper rail only https://i.imgur.com/LYmfHCm.jpg and two separate instances here https://i.imgur.com/t8rniRS.jpg
    g) At the start of c2a2a21, these two sections https://i.imgur.com/VynB2E2.jpg
  12. The handrail next to the kitchen has a gap in it https://i.imgur.com/u1KGmq1.jpg
  13. In the area above the tram elevator HECU encampment, I suggest placing an I-beam here to conceal this texture seam https://i.imgur.com/x4zsjDG.jpg. The railing would have to be re-worked.
  14. Almost half of the lift-lower mechanism for the tram elevator is embedded into the wall https://i.imgur.com/XUPhUCv.jpg
  15. Consider raising these four wall vents to the bottom edge of the orange paint https://i.imgur.com/vKHPJEF.jpg
  16. On the way up to the walkway above the tram elevator HECU encampment, this large pipe that runs along the ceiling https://i.imgur.com/Aw8x1rP.jpg clips into the ceiling trim, at both ends https://i.imgur.com/PAQe5DS.jpg
  17. This light https://i.imgur.com/iUpfE5n.jpg should be raised to match other lights https://i.imgur.com/ip2iwnX.jpg
  18. Raise the height of this light https://i.imgur.com/V2Gc25f.jpg to match other stairwell lights https://i.imgur.com/zuWGXqz.jpg
  19. Concerning wall lights positioning, specifically related to the office complex. Pay particular attention to the horizontal wall seam:
  1. Consider having more variety in the death poses for the executed scientists https://i.imgur.com/8B3yyfn.jpg
  2. Can the same raised texture be maintained to the end of the wall https://i.imgur.com/Efya4F5.jpg as is the case on the other side https://i.imgur.com/V6pTv49.jpg and across the tracks https://i.imgur.com/kp68a57.jpg? Also, here on the other parallel track https://i.imgur.com/Vnh83jg.jpg like here across the tracks https://i.imgur.com/4GRnx59.jpg
  3. Can this concrete curb https://i.imgur.com/eQkxHL7.jpg be trimmed and finished like this one on the opposite side? https://i.imgur.com/nSqHYr4.jpg. Also here https://i.imgur.com/hwbZkFX.jpg and the other side https://i.imgur.com/xB31j1L.jpg
  4. At the start of c2a2a21, this handrail post clips into the rail https://i.imgur.com/RRi4OPw.jpg
  5. At the start of c2a2a21, this turret trip sensor clips into the wall https://i.imgur.com/2np6R6W.jpg
  6. On the stairs leading to the crane/rail switch security office, this wall trim clips through the handrail https://i.imgur.com/hINj8vf.jpg and the stair’s side frame https://i.imgur.com/6VgXBOt.jpg
  7. Can this triangular shadow artifact be removed? https://i.imgur.com/gUQbvHE.jpg

To be continued…
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I’m split on it, it isn’t a bad idea, but it would make it harder and possibly less obvious that you’re supposed to jump on the other tram.

True, the light armour didn’t appear until Surface Tension, alongside heavy armour. While I would personally have reservations about placing say, an Abrams in OaR, I don’t think it’d be going too far to assume the HECU’s first wave arrived equipped with LAV-25’s. I don’t think it’d even be far fetched to say there were a few LAV-25’s already stationed in Black Mesa. It’s certainly a more sensible alternative than HL1’s generic WW2 Anti-Aircraft gun being set up in a small tunnel.

EDIT: I just tested the LAV by spawning one in HL’s c2a2g in place of (spawning it infront of) the autogun, and I quite like how it behaves. Dispite the low damage it’s quite fearsome, blowing away the boxes with ease, forcing you to keep moving until you get to the sandbags, at which point you can dash to the door (at this point you’re close enough that it’s turn speed won’t be able to keep up with you). It was quite fun imo, and it’s definately something you should consider.

I’ve also learned through messing around in-game that you can use the console to change enemy stats, anything in the cfg can be changed including damage output. These changes also reset to default cfg when you load the next map. So if the LAV is too weak to feel threatening in this location, the damage output can be changed just for this map without affecting any other LAV in the game!

Of course, no hurry. It is a busy time after all.

Regardless of solution, this is a good idea.

I’d rather keep the tram run alongside the player like in HL1, for the very reason Mr. Someguy mentioned. Changing its direction it’s a rather drastic solution, to be taken only if nothing better can be accomplished.

Don’t put LAV as they’ll only use it when they’re owned by the aliens. I think it will hurt the storyline. Besides, that area is already included in bm_c2a2c. The soldiers aren’t desperate to kill you with tanks already.

They use tanks to handle you and the aliens.

I dunno about that. The first major encounter we have with the Military involves them blowing the absolute hell out of the surface, forcing us to go back underground almost immediately. Plus by the time you get to OAR in HL, it’s clear they’re threatened by you. HL OaR had all sorts of crazy traps set up to stop you, plus hate-graffiti. Like I said, an Abrams would be too much imo, but an LAV would be fine.

Also drawing a new concept map, this one is much more conservative, and should probably fit the bill.

EDIT: New and Improved!

[U]KEY:[/U]________________________ [B]A:[/B] Toll Switch must be activated to pass. [B]B:[/B] Soldier Tram, enabled once the player comes around the bend. [B]C:[/B] Parked Train, provides a clear obstruction so the player knows he must jump trams. [B]D:[/B] Soldier Tram automatically jams the breaks once it reaches this point (failsafe stop effect / sound) if the Player has not already stepped aboard the tram. [B]E:[/B] Wall, I wanted to clarify that these tracks are indeed separated.

Additional Note: You should probably add a non-usable traintrack crossover on the straightaway where you and the Soldier Train meet. It would make the tracks look less ‘claustrophobic’ if you know what I mean.

Two quick things - A note about the A-map alpha, and a question.

First off - I’m not sure if this has been pointed out (if it is, I must’ve read over it, my bad) but the security guard’s leg with an “invisible wall” by it in the cafeteria - The invisible wall is a Bullsquid, just invisible.

Second off - I’m lost, what do people mean by the tram heading towards the player? Are we talking about the Marines on the tram beside the player in Black Mesa, or was there a scene like that in HL1? If so, where? I don’t remember running into it. :frowning:

There was a scene like that in Half-Life, but it didn’t always happen depending on how you played the level.

My only concern is won’t you reach the entity limit fairly quickly on this layout? I mean, I’m no expert at Source map building but that’s quite a large layout. Looks and sounds gorgeous though. Looking forward to it.

I hate to say, but an LAV, in addition to being out of character for the story wouldn’t be a good idea from a combat stand point either. What’s the player going to use to kill it? At this point in the game the only things they have are Frag grenades, satchels, and MP5 'nades. You have no good A-T weapons at that point in the game, so it’s pretty much using a fly swatter against an SUV.

The only thing that I could see working to the player’s advantage would be a TOW launcher on the opposite side of the room. Otherwise it’d just make the game far more difficult than it needs to be.

Unfortunately I doubt the HECU would be dumb enough to convieniently leave a TOW launcher + ammo lying around on the our side of the map, perfectly positioned to take out the APC.

I think we should lose the APC and try to figure something else out.

Well for one thing, we don’t know exactly when the Military arrived with ‘heavy’ equipment, but we do know that by the time WGH takes place, they’ve already had Heavy Mortars set up. But is it really hard to believe that the Military would bring in armoured vehicles ~15 hours after an alien invasion begins? I’d find it harder to believe that they would wait until the next day. Plus, they really wanted to keep Freeman from launching that Rocket, so it makes sense that they’d try to block his path with the heaviest thing they have on hand.

It only takes 3 MP5 Grenades or 2-3 Satchel Charges to take out an LAV, and with the right moves, it’s possible to outrun it by going cover to cover. Like I mentioned before it’s also possible to change the LAV’s stats on that map, so he could make it as weak or strong as he wanted. It can do 0 physical damage and blow up from the slightest explosive damage if he wanted. Personally I think it’s actually easier to destroy than the autoguns because you don’t have to ‘grenade snipe’ the user, just hit it 3 times and it’s dead. I’ve tested the LAV in-game on HL’s G map, and I think it works wonderfully.

I don’t want to come off as demanding or arrogant, I understand your reservations. I just feel not not using the LAV (which with the right commands, can be 100% functionally identical to HL’s emplacement guns aside from the emplacement itself) would be a huge missed opportunity. The LAV would essentially be taking their place in spirit, it’s more grounded in reality than WW2 AA guns, yet provides the exact same function; a sizable obstacle firing accurate hard-hitting rounds as a semi-slow rate.

^ Mine’s double that if not more, and the turn speed is increased by a factor of 2 or 3 I don’t remember, that’s irrelevant however. Fact of the matter is, you’ve got a group of HECU trying to kill you and the LAV is just piling on. As I stated, the only A-T Weapons you have is the MP5’s Grenades, Frags, and Satchels, and to a lesser extent, Tripmines. 2 of them, you need to get up close to use effectively. The third, you need to grenade snipe from a longer range. It’s a bigger target, but still the same concept. The fourth, is essentially useless.

I understand you wanting to defend your ideas, but it isn’t feasible that early in the game, what the fuck are you going to use to kill it? What if the player doesn’t have satchels, MP5 Nades, etc? We don’t know the ammo distribution. Did you try it on hard difficulty? It’d be harder to kill then. I’m not trying to bash you, but you’ve gotta look at all the angles before you put something on the table.

The only way I could see it being used that early in the game and still be fair to the player is to have a “manned” TOW on another side of the room.

Additionally, there isn’t anything saying they’re not using Abrams, LAVs, etc. to choke off other parts of the facility… it could also be more feasibly put into the B2 map during the night time vista, that is provided the player has enough ammo for it. Down in the depths there’s no place to put it, where did it come from in the current lay out?

Why not just have an M2 in a sandbagged bunker? I think that’d be plenty lethal enough, would be closer to the original, and wouldn’t necessitate making a new model.

Or, I guess, if somebody did want to make a new model, maybe a Mk19? It’d pretty much serve the same purpose as the original autocannon.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.