Metal Gear Solid 5

Which one? It might be able to do close to the PC screenshot at 30 or so fps but Kojima wanted 60. And since framerate drops are rare I’m guessing if you unlocked the framerate it would be running quite a bit above 60 fps most of the time, requiring even more scaling back. People seriously overestimate the PS4 and Xbone, and while in some cases (like Unity) it’s the dev’s fault, I think Kojipro pretty much optimized as much as they physically could to get the game running at 60 fps while still looking pretty good. Rendering more polygons is pretty intensive, especially with consoles since they’re always on a tightrope between graphics and performance. And in this case Kojipro chose to sacrifice lod to make the game run at 60 fps.

Exactly.

For no reason other than ‘it’s 60fps’. I remember reading his twitter about MGS2 running at 60 fps when they were shoving the HD collection down our throats. He is so damn clueless haha. Side note: He is so fucking weird in recent years. He actually wrote how he was fucking depressed about not being able ‘to reach the fidelity of GTAV’ with MGS5. I shit you not.

30fps ‘choppiness’ has less of an impact on TV screens than it does on PC monitors due to the way the hardware works.

Just like they did with MGS3 and MGS4(where it kept spiking up like a fucking bitch), right? Oh lol.
It better be fucking constant 60fps, or someone’s gonna be pissed.

You think MGS3 and 4 weren’t well optimized? They’re some of the best looking games on their respective platforms. Yeah, their performance was hit or miss, but optimization isn’t some black magic unless you count scaling things down. And MGS3 was doing real time cutscenes (with pretty impressive shit for the PS2, same with MGS2) when most games (especially ports from other platforms) on the PS2 prerendered them.

GZ has no framerate drops on either console but there are a few minor drops (like into the 50s) in a few of the gameplay videos for TPP. There was one point where it dropped to like 38 fps for 2 seconds or so though. Like I said, optimization isn’t black magic, and there’s more that can happen in a non linear game that you can’t necessarily compensate for.

I don’t know why Kojima chose 60 fps, but he did the same thing with MGS2 more or less. I’m glad he did though so we don’t get locked fps on PC (well it’s locked, but at 60 fps) and it’ll probably lower the requirements compared to if he went for 30 fps like everyone else.

That stuff in bold. MGS3 was all over the place on PS2.
MGS4 had stupidly annoying spikes.

Oh and yeah, MGS3 is p. much THE best looking game on PS2. No one ever pushed PS2 as far as they did.

Quote:

‘‘Long time ago. I think he was saying our brains recognize it as more realistic when it goes above 45fps… or something like that’’

Dude. He is bloody clueless.

How does console fps correlate with the what we get on PC?

I like how 60 fps looks honestly. And how it feels. I would prefer more games go for 60 fps over graphics. Though that isn’t a strange opinion he has. When film was just starting Edison apparently said that 46 fps should be the minimum for that. And performance is more important in games too because they’re interactive. 60 fps feels a hell of a lot better control wise than 30 fps. Especially since 30 fps typically means averaging in the 20s.

Either way people would be offended though. if the game ran at 20-30 fps like 3 and 4 people would be complaining, and here you are complaining that the lod is shit because Kojima wanted 60 fps.

For me, fidelity/detail and color science/artist work > resolution or fps.

The only problem with his statement is that he pulled the number out of his ass. Black Maria cameras were barely able to hit 42fps while recording, usually staying within 35-40fps range, as per his contemporaries accounts. The accounts on the camera actual rate are all over the place.

What is certain though is that there is not a single Kinetoscope film in archives that was shot at 46 fps.
It is actually pretty funny, here what Library of Congress lists:

Edison kinetoscopic record of a sneeze (aka Fred Ott’s Sneeze): filmed ca. Jan. 2–7, 1894; 5 seconds at 16 fps
Athlete with wand: filmed Feb. 1894; 37 seconds at 16 fps
Sandow (the one of these four films to be shown at the April 14 commercial premiere): filmed Mar. 6, 1894; 40 seconds at 16 fps
Carmencita: filmed ca. Mar. 10–16, 1894; 21 seconds at 30 fps

Inconsistency between framerates was a big problem initially, if you can imagine.

That, and film actually started almost a decade before Edison. Dude apparently liked to ‘invent’ things, if you kno what I mean.

Alright, that’s enough of me getting sidetracked. I wrote a 6000 word report on Cinematography history and techniques a month ago for my MA, if you can imagine.

True, but the necessity for it depends on the pace and whether it competitive multiplayer FPS/Fighter/Racer or not.

I was speaking about capping at 30 fps. 30-45 is a healthy margin. For me personally the sweet spot for gaming is between 35-42 fps. IF, AND ONLY IF IT IS CONSTANT.

4 actually ran at 30 and would spike to 40-50 at low detail shots in cutscenes for several seconds. Was really fucking distracting.
3 felt like it slowed down to below 20 sometimes in some cutscenes -almost never in gameplay where it was 30 fps at pretty much constant (which was pretty perfect for the game’s pace)

Lol I am not complaining. It is just mindboggling how badly they had to chop it to get it there.

P.S. It always seems to boil down to an FPS debate between me and you, doesn’t it.

So, because I’m dumb: MGS 5 is already out on consoles but not PC?

yup

It’s entirely possible Edison pulled that number out of his ass, but at the same time, just because it couldn’t be done well at the time (both because of hardware limitations and the cost of film) doesn’t mean he didn’t actually believe 46 fps and above was better.

I don’t believe that framerate should be determined by game type. Obviously yes, games that require twitch reactions and stuff need higher framerates, but I would still prefer 60 fps in pretty much any type of game.

Capping at 30 fps and keeping it constant would still require aiming for above that generally, though I guess the same is true for them capping the game at 60fps. So keeping a constant 30 fps would require say 45 fps average while keeping a constant 60 fps would require a 75 fps average or whatever. I’m not a game dev working with the PS4 so I don’t know how much they could have added back if they lowered the framerate. Still though, the PS4 has a pretty bad CPU and its card is equivalent to like a 7870 or something.

I think MGS4 and 3 both performed similarly. If you watch Eurogamer’s video comparison of 3 to the HD version it is 30 fps a lot, it was a lot more consistent than I imagined it would be. I honestly never noticed 4’s framerate going above 30 fps. But at the same time, it pulled off some pretty cool shit, like the picture in picture at points in the game. That and the inverse kinematics that ever MGS game has had where bodies that go up against walls actually correctly interact with the walls (which is actually missing in GZ) which also requires more processing. So just the games running relatively poorly doesn’t really mean they were poorly optimized, as they were doing some pretty cool stuff that other games really weren’t. Especially 2 and 3 on the PS2. And them not capping the framerate is just a strange design decision and I don’t know how you would really related that to optimization.

They’re limited by hardware, same as any other console generation. It’s actually worse it seems this gen since Sony and Microsoft went with an x86 architecture and more or less standard PC setup. Devs can’t pull off as many clever tricks as they were able to in the past. That and both of these consoles have overhead just like PCs do so they can’t put all the power towards the game. And I mean you didn’t seem to even realize the problem before you saw the comparison so that’s saying something. I played GZ on the Xbone and didn’t really notice anything off either. I’m just glad they’re using every platform to their potential (keeping in mind that both console versions are running at 60 fps and GZ is one of the only games that manages to do 1080p 60 fps on the PS4) and not having max settings on PC be the same as what the PS4 version runs at.

Ground Zeroes is. TPP isn’t out on any and doesn’t even have a release date. I’m hoping it’s not delayed on PC.

Lol how can you actually assert that 46 fps is better when you’ve never seen a film go over 35-40? That is what I meant. It is not even my idea, I am just citing the book I used as a reference back then.

x86 is actually mindboggling, considering that they had 128-bit (64 bit x 2) in PS2/Dreamcast (regardles of such wordlength being pretty fucking useless).

Yeah that post back there was more or less a brainfart from me.

Going x86 was the best decision Sony and MS made for the new consoles. They’re cheaper, run cool, saved them billions in R&D and everyone knows how to work with them, meaning faster ports of games between platforms.

Besides, any tricks up their sleeves they can find will be located in the GPU, with those compute units ready to be exploited.

Resident Evil 4, no argument.

Haha, no. RE4 on PS2 was a pathetic port of the Gamecube game.

Best looking games on PS2 are MGS3 and God of War 2.

Transformers looks pretty good as well

are you taking lsd again?

He’s Dotard man, reading his posts can be painful sometimes. Personally unless its a twitch shooter, I choose graphical fidelity over 60 fps.

Your question implies that I ever stopped. And seriously, no, RE4 on ps2 indeed looks better to me than MGS3, twice as good.

Ok, maybe you think the art style is better, fair enough, but technically MGS3 is superior and was doing stuff that pushed the PS2 to its limits. It had crazy cutscenes running in real time while they had to turn cutscenes into shitty video files for the RE4 port.

Shadow of the Colossus also pushed the PS2 to the absolute limit. Bloom lighting, motion blur, the crazy Colossi. It barely ever got above 25 FPS because of how technically intensive the game was.

Heavily scripted MGO trailer shown at the VGAs but it looked pretty cool. I’m really excited, I fucking love MGO.

Edit: Here’s the 1080p 60 fps trailer for MGO3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qE2ZDkyQNs

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.