Loved the H.E.C.U Marines in this more than the original half life

I think the sexual symbolism helped make the aliens more disturbing. Sex is obviously a very personal thing, so to have some creature look like some sick sexual thing, examples being Gonarch and the cut Mr. Friendly, helps rack the player’s nerves, it violates their mind.

Yeah, and I hope HL never becomes a gordian knot of moral complexity. I like me some I, Claudius but there’s also room for King Solomon’s Mines too. :slight_smile:

One of the devs (might be Stormseeker or Kane) addressed it shortly after the release when someone asked about it in one of the HECU threads.

Well at least someone gets it.

I actually just played OpFor for the first time the other day. While I liked it quite a bit, the thing that bothered me, aside from the silliness of the security guards and the uselessness of your squads, was that I felt more like I was being forced along from task to task by the game, rather than having any true motivation. At least in Half-Life you knew that you were trying to escape and end the catastrophe, even if you had no real choice in the matter. In OpFor it was just like you would run into soldiers who need help, so you help them, and then you leave them behind and go do something else, until the game is over. It neither really felt like I was trying to escape nor trying to join the rest of the HECU forces, which would seem to be the most logical motivations.

Gets what exactly? That they’re neutral? If we’re judging them as people and not automatons, well:

To a country (if they are mercenaries anyway), yes, they are indeed neutral. Morally? Fuck no. Can’t let them off the hook for killing unarmed civilians, which they’re completely responsible for. As I’ve said to you before; they don’t have to pull the trigger.

So, I judge them as morally bad.

They just do their job, they don’t ask why they have to kill them. Or maybe they were brainwashed by their superiors to make the Black Mesa employees seem bad, so that they don’t question shooting at them. After all, they caused an alien invasion, I wouldn’t mind shooting the responsibles of such a catastrophe

They aren’t brainwashed. They have dialogs that they don’t want what they’re doing. The only enemies that are brainwashed appeared in Half-Life 2. Combine Soldiers and Stalkers.

There’s only one line that shows remorse and reluctance about their actions. There’s well over one that show them enjoying their actions or at the very least, not having a problem with it.

They are a branch of Marine Corps following a direct containment order by the government. You know what the word ‘containment’ ensues? All they’ve been said is that some major shit is happening that threatens the global security and the sci’s are directly responsible for that said shit - which in actuality, is not that far from truth - after all, it is Freeman and the lambda team who are responsible for the Combine invasion in HL2.
If anything, HECUs are actually working to stop them from fucking shit up even further.

‘They said he was at ground zero’ dialogue gives a player a hint at how much they knew.

I’m not interested in how you judge them ‘morally’ - I’ve already said that morality has bugger all to do with what I posted back there.

P.S. I thought you said bye-bye to me?

Different people, different opinions and emotions. As a faction within the game’s story and the task they are trying to achieve - it doesn’t matter what their personal feelings about the matter are.

There’s only four things we have to do in this world (Unless you’re suicidal):

Eat. Excrete. Sleep. Survive. (Breeding is optional.)

Killing people, is not one of the things we have to do unless it contradicts with one or so of the four. Unarmed civilians, in HLs context anyway, are not contradicting one of the four.

Brainwashing is a possibility. However, since you yourself have exempted them from traditional moral judgement, wouldn’t that also give the Vortigaunts a pass? They’re forced\enslaved to do what they are doing and they’re the most frequent intelligent alien species you encounter in the game.

They accidentally caused the alien invasion, they didn’t wake up on May 16th and say: “Let’s cause an alien invasion which will kill millions or billions!”

Don’t think that calls for a firing squad…

I guess how you judge them morally in this situation is really dependant on who’s side you find yourself in. The general populace was probably told that the personnel of the BMRF were terrorists or something, and I’m sure the marines were told this was well, so you’d probably be pro marine in this case.

If you’re apart of the scientists and security guards, if you know the truth about the whole situation, then you see the marines and the government as evil. Since in Half-Life you are in this latter situation, then they’re the bad guys. I guess I now see what Mr.Someguy meant by them being the heroes of their story.

One more thing, remember that their goal wasn’t to give those scientists justice, even if that is what they were told to do. The real goal was so the populace didn’t know about an alien invasion that was partially the US government’s fault (as BMRF was funded by the government).

And yet you categorized them into neutral, ‘stereotypically’ evil and ‘stereotypically’ good?

Oh, I know, but I chose to ignore that. Not because I had to. My reasons are nobody’s business but mine.

My question to you now is: Why did you choose to defend your opinions to me?

Really? It mattered to the soldier who lamented his task…

such hostility for such a small thing
can’t we just be civil?

Besides that, I think the whole deal of moral issues of right and wrong in Half Life is based on the idea of the american government trying to hide facts, well known throughout history, so the real bad guy is not really the soldiers or the aliens, but the government that both allowed the research and sent the containment team to clear a mess that they were aware of the risks in the first place and in a number of ways, that’s where the G-Man plays a central role in it all
I really didn’t see people commenting on this, so that’s your dose of X-Files for ya

“can’t we just be civil?”

Scientist: “Don’t kill me! I’m with the Science Team!”
HECU: shoots scientist

That’s exactly what I thought Half Life was about when I played it the first time(Before the sequel). I thought G-man was behind everything, maybe he was even a government agent after all(it didn’t sound weird back then, that’s why they call him G-man after all). I even thought the government was well aware of the existence of Xen, and maybe even related to it(Illuminati - Reptilian stuff, you know what I mean). So it was everything the same thing, you know? The HECU was the government, the aliens… Too! By that time it made sense, I looked at Marines as some kind of secret agents, like Black Ops, and not like regular troops.

But now that I think about it again, it’s not such a bad idea they are like Black Ops. They’re not aware of what they’re actually doing(or at least why they’re doing it), but they just don’t give a fuck, they’re not regular troops. They were trained to not give a fuck, they’re inhuman, they’re a tool, the tool that the government is using to erase every proof that Black Mesa ever existed. Neither are they evil, they would never go rape people like they’re implied to do in BM, they shouldn’t be resentful to the scientists, neither sympathethic. They don’t ask why they kill them, they just kill them because they know they have to, because it’s necessary “for the good of the nation”. They’re just automats, at least that’s how I saw them in the original game. And that’s how I would like them to be again, just another gear in the big government machine that keeps everything working. I also like it that way because it’s more interesting, they’re more mysterious, it gives us material to make our own conspiracy theories and that stuff. I mean, it makes me think of Roswell, aliens, men in black… damn, I love that, it’s better than thinking they’re just the “police” that came to put everything under control.

LOL

Though, there is contextual differences between shooting an unarmed scientist begging for his life vs. me humoring myself via arguing with an arrogant, divisive, dismissive, stubborn and cynical(or maybe misanthropic?) fellow.

I know I can’t change his mind no matter what I say and I wouldn’t want to if I could:

it’s more fun not to.

So, there’s the reason I didn’t stop after ‘Bye-Bye’. Very dishonest of me. No doubt about it.

I’m bored with him now though. So I’ll stop, apologize for being dishonest and except the consequences.

PS - I think he sees any contradiction to his opinion as an attack on him. This is MY OPINION (which he probably won’t care for), so it MAY BE WRONG (or always wrong), but bugger it, here’s my subjective answer to my previous question:

His ego takes choice out of his actions.

So, I don’t hold him responsible for them. :wink:

Scientist: “Take me with you! I’m the one man who knows everything!”
HECU: guns down scientist

Actually, I remember there being at least two soldiers who didn’t like what they were doing for similar (not the same, but rooted in the same issue) reasons.

“I’ve killed 12 dumb-ass scientists and not one of them fought back! This sucks!”
That guy seemed rather upset about his orders to kill unarmed civilians, but in this case because he was looking for a fun and challenging battle, not mowing down civies.

“I didn’t sign on for this shit. Monsters sure, but civilians? Who ordered this operation anyways?”
This guy is also upset about his orders to kill unarmed civilians. However, this reason is because of morals.

I personally cannot recall any instance in Half-Life where the troops said, “Fuck yeah! Let’s go bag some nerds for Uncle Sam!” So I took it that the HECU (or just the standard military, as much as I love Opposing Force the HECU were never called that in Half-Life) didn’t like their orders, but as professional soldiers they were supposed to carry them out anyways.

At the same time, the military was also a parody in the original Half-Life much like how they are in Black Mesa. The thing is, they looked the part. And that is where I think Black Mesa messed up. Rather than basing the guys off of their Half-Life designs, Black Mesa decided to reimagine them to be “more realistic and elite”. But then why didn’t their voices reflect that change? If they were going to be changed so much, shouldn’t the devs have gone all the way instead of just halfway?

And before anyone says the military in Half-Life was supposed to be serious, just look at these two guys. The commander looks like he’s constipated and the black guy looks like he’s from Predator.

I got the impression they were at least somewhat influenced by OpFor. Given that Shepard was 22, it seems that they re-envisioned the HECU to be mostly young, hot-blooded recruits, whereas the black ops teams were the older, more seasoned, and more serious ones. I thought it made sense, but the execution was a little off.

The way I see it, the HECU were mostly just a group that specialized in unconventional warfare with unconventional foes. They were based nearby because the Government knew about Black Mesa and Xen and wanted the right forces nearby incase anything ever went wrong. I assume the HECU already signed their NDA’s. Why they went against procedure and started killing civilians is another mystery entirely.

The Black Ops are most likely the Special Operations Group, of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Special Activities Division. They’re the most secretive Special Forces available to the US Government and operate directly under the President and the CIA, unlike other military bodies. They’re used for when you want something done, but you don’t want anyone to know you’ve done it. A perfect candidate for killing-off fellow Soldiers and detonating a Nuclear Warhead on US soil.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.