That’s called neutral. And neutral is why HECUs in HL were as great as they were.
You have stereotypical ‘good’ as freman/sci/guards and stereotypical ‘evil’ as aliens who want to enslave every mother fucking thing + stereotypical illuminati-like mediator in the role shadow-intergalactic-govt./g-man.
Against such background, HECU’s look fresh despite being rather generic proffesional operator badasses in essence. They actually manage to exist on their own without any rights or wrongs and not to follow any particular convention within the game’s universe - and hence there is more freedom for the writer to throw in stuff like ‘freeman will pay’ and ‘I didn’t sign on for this shit’ scenes - this is what make them believable all despite the rather alien vocoder sfx.
What we have in BM? We have HECU conveyed as stereotypical baddies (so far as inserting an implied rape dialogue), while the general story premise and the scenes are left the same. And guess what happens, for example, to ‘I didn’t sign on for this shit’ monologue? That’s right - nobody fucking believes that guy. This is where BM failed miserably.
That’s not really how I interpreted it when I played HL all those years ago, and while interpretations are subjective, that’s a bizarre conclusion there. If I was to box the HECU and aliens in HL now, I think it’s more sensible to put the aliens in neutral and the HECU in stereotypical ‘evil’. Why? Well, the aliens are slaves (Vortigaunts at least) controlled by threat, violence (typically slave-breaking), brainwashing or through telepathy, either way, they have little choice in the matter.
I have no idea of the intensions of the other aliens, but as for the animals, well they can hardly be good or evil in the same way that a predator or parasite can be good or evil. The HECU on the other hand are not forced to point a weapon at an unarmed civilian and use it, they have a choice in the matter. They are 100% accountable for their actions. Even if they were to disobey the order to kill unarmed civilians, the punishment would hardly be severe for its contemporary USA, and they would be applaudable for having the courage to say “No, fuck you”.
The game is not meant to be a fastidious character study on morality; I don’t think that was the intentions of the writer and to do so probably would have hurt the narrative and pacing. You’re wanting too much from the story of BM, but I’ll try to examine it more than it actually needs. The implied rape dialogue from the two soldiers may be a shocking to you, but unfortunately military rape is not a fictional invention. The Japanese occupation of Nanking and the actions of the black and tans during the Irish war of Independence are two modern examples of such cruelty.
But I think you and I would agree that the sadistic actions of a few were not the actions of the entire Japanese or British people, or generations after. Same goes for the HECU within BM. It was just two soldiers dialoguing about it. Just two, not all. Besides, I hardly think they would get approval for it either and if they did, it would likely be off the record.
From your posts in this thread, I get the feeling off you that just because a person receives military training and attire, and is put on active duty is immune to human flaws and transcended into an… ugh… ubermensch.
Ehm, Xen wasn’t represented solely by vorts and animals in HL, was it? And slavery, again, makes Xen/Nihilanth a stereotypical evil.
Not like they’ve been given a containment order, but that’s not even the point.
What do you mean ‘I’m wanting’? I’m telling they generally fucked up with HECUs in BM compared to what we had in HL by taking a rather strange direction with them.
No shit sherlock? And ehm, “shocking” to me? Again, I just mentioned it to reinforce the point about the direction they took with BM HECUs.
Sorry, the feeling you get is, ehm, wrong. I said they were more believable because they were neutral from the onset - not veering straight into either good or bad at any point. While in BM, they were conveyed as B-movie baddies on purpose to make them ‘inhumane’ (by admission of the devs) - a characterization that didn’t fit the original premise at all. No more, no less. Morality had buggerall to do with what I was implying.
A question to you,though: why did you feel the need to be a smartass and lecture me on things I already know?
In regards to the HECU, your interpretation of them is exactly like mine. I think the more sympathetic role of the marines and the whole “orders vs morality” thing would suit a game like Deus Ex more than Half-Life.
In Half-Life, the sympathy to the villains is drawn towards the Vorts, as it’s shown that they’re not very willing to do what the Nihilanth orders them to do, and would rather leave Earth alone than invade it. The factory scenes show this especially.
For marines, I don’t know, the sympathy that MrSomeGuy feels for them is something I myself never felt. I can’t really have much sympathy for someone who complains that civilians don’t fight back when shot.
Now maybe I’m just not seeing it, I’m not going to pretend that I’m 100% right on everything, but the whole “soldiers who do their orders but lament their actions” was never something I got with the grunts. I always thought it was “soldiers who happily do their orders to please Uncle Sam”, but of course, this is once again, my opinion.
The grey morality aspect is definitely present in Half-Life, but I don’t think it’s really “shown” as much as it is “felt”.
Personally (this might just be me, of course), in Half-Life, even though I felt perfectly justified in killing the HECU ('cause, y’know, they did storm in at me with automatic weaponry and stuff), I couldn’t shake the thought of “am I really doing the right thing here?”
I never really had a feeling of “maybe they’re the good guys and are just mistaken?”. Thinking about it after playing, it’s noticeable, but during gameplay? I never really thought about it that much.
Personally, I think Black Mesa kinda hit an odd point with what it does. It’s a bit more… I don’t know, but the contrast between the Marines’ voices (“WE’RE GONNA KICK YOUR ASS”) and the whole “Questionable Ethics” concept is more jarring.
I think Half-Life pulled it off a bit better, but I’m going to have to say that I’m one of the people who doesn’t feel too negatively about BM’s Marines, just kind of indifferent.
Well, HECU is supposed to be like a group of mercenaries, they’re not bad nor good, they’re neutral like someone just said. They shouldn’t give much of a fuck about what’s going on, just as long as they’re still alive and can do their job. In the original game that’s how they were, but in BM they’re too focused in trying to kill Freeman, and because they fail terribly, that makes them look foolish and you can’t take them seriously. They should be more “Professional”, so you just don’t mind killing them, because they’re more like robots doing their job, but you neither hate them as in BM nor feel pitty for them It’s like a balance between both things.
What I mean is: They’re not the real enemy, they’re just in the wrong time and place and you have to take them out. But they’re not the good guys neither
I always liked the fact that you actually fight american troops in a game where you are an american
It’s such a wierd concept, few games portray the american army as enemies
especially when they feel so psychopathic
And that’s why I disliked Opposing Force to a certain extend, I feel as they should have been much more cruel and violent to the personnel in that game
but BM’s version of the marines is too silly to be a menace (except for the fucking aimbot)
Eh, I kinda didn’t like it to be honest. It seemed weird how soldiers would talk to each other over radios within the same room, it’s not like in the Combine’s case where they wouldn’t be able to be heard from their helmets. It did make them cooler though, I will admit.
Few games and movies play with moral relativism unfortunately. Either because of poor understanding of morality/literary tropes (and the correct use of them) and public companies old ball and chain; fear and greed. With the expenses of some games and movies today I could hardly fault them for that. Edit: It also doesn’t help that the biggest markets for games and movies are American.
And anyway, not every story needs moral complexity and I like big dumb escapist fluff that I can switch my brain off to from time to time.
I think I disliked OP because it felt aesthetically different to the original. It was of course created by a different group from valve so that’s part of it. I guess it feels like fan fiction, it has all the original characters and canon but it’s clear that it has a different artist behind it.
I think so too, but part of the different feel is probably because of the different scenarios.
Half-Life is a fight to rectify something you yourself started while being the main target of an intergalactic battle by both sides, the aliens and Earth. It’s a Sci-Fi thriller really.
Opposing Force is more like a military adventure, very Full Metal Jacket and Saving Private Ryan-esque, so I’m sure that has something to do with it. It doesn’t feel as gloomy or serious as Half-Life does, and that’s probably because the cheesiness is at a pretty high level, between the pre-existing cheesiness from Half-Life, the wussy soldiers, and the not very interesting Race X, without whom would have probably made the game’s story more enjoyable.
I don’t really seem to be able to connect Half-Life and Opposing Force as being in the same universe because they do feel so different.
well, Half Life’s not that complex
It deals with moral issues but the representation of the army in it is what made it shine for me, It’s not really critical of it but I guess I really like to shoot military man when I’m not one of them
Agreed. To be fair though, the last time I believe I played OP was 2003. I think. Though I know that I played through it twice, but if I remember my first reaction to the new creatures added to OP was that they had lost that interesting sexual symbolism. Granted I most have liked the game enough to warrant a second play-through.
Still remember my reaction to the first time I reached the Gonarch creature. I actually giggled though… probably not the reaction Valve were looking for but I’m Irish, so my responses to things are probably a bit addled.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
