Is the Universe Infinite?

#141

Yes, I also believe that numbers are infinite and that the universe’s mass is finite. But there are philosophic theories (e.g. Ultrafinitism) that believe numbers aren’t infinite. Ultrafinitism says that number can only exist if it has a physical representation. Therefore you can’t always add one. According to this philosophy, you might not be able add one to the number of elementary particles in the universe, for instance, because you would need one more particle, and you are already using all of them. Nonsense, in my opinion, but that is just my opinion, many disagree.

Ultrafinitsm’s notion is the kind of notion that Kisuke Moto implied here:

Actually, math can trick you in these things. I believe it would be perfectly possible to have an infinite universe, but with small probability to find a “cheese planet” or whatever. The universe could have less matter as you farther from the center in a (non-homogeneous) random way. Up to some point, the probability of finding a large group of particles together (and therefore an entire planet) could approach zero.

I’m saying that as a possibility because I didn’t do the math to find out if that would be the case, it’s just an intuition.

#142

That is one of the dumbest intellectual theories I have ever heard, even if the universe were finite. There would always be someone out there placing another zero on the end of “the largest actual number” saying, “See? Numbers are infinite.”

#143

I think what they are claiming is that since the universe is finite, there can be only a finite number “somethings” in existence. Therefore, there’s a limit to numbers.

But “numbers” are a mathematical construct. If say the number of “somethings” in the universe is 10^googleplex (that’s 1 followed by a googleplex of zeroes; a googleplex is 1 followed by a gogol of zeroes; a gogol is a 1 one followed by a hundred zeroes). That’s a lot. Now take 10^googleplex and add one.

Inversely, there are an infinite amount of non-integer numbers between two integers. There are an infinite number of decimals one can place between the numbers 1 and 2. Each additional digit to the right of the decimal is exponentially smaller than the one before it, but it never reaches zero. Which is ultimate defined as:

10 is approximately equal to 9.999…

No, numbers are infinite. The universe is not.

#144

What does the max limit of numbers have to do with the universe? They’re completely seperate things, it’s like comparing an ocean to the Washington Monument

#145

Numbers can not be infinite if the universe is not. The max number would be incredibly big granted but it would have an end. for example if you worked out an equation to uncover the entire mass of the universe that number would be infinite if the universe was but finite if the universe wasnt

#146

It depends on how you define infinite, the Universe is just very huge, it doesn’t go on forever and forever

#147

You’re not a clever person, are you? Numbers aren’t based on the mass of the universe, so your “theory” immediately falls flat.

#148

You’re aware that can infinity exist before the number one, right? Infinity is a concept, like numbers. Numbers can be infinite without an infinite universe. Something can be finite but not have boundaries.

#149

Now take that number of the finite universe and add one.

#150

what im saying is numbers can only be numbers when they are used in a formula or equation. there purpose is pointless other wise. Even pie ends. For a number to be infinite it would need something with a propetry that is also infinite. My example might not be the best granted but the point stands, numbers can not be infinite without an infinite universe. If the universe is finite their is a point were numbers end and in theory we return to zero

#151

Pi is an irrational number and is infinite. Also yes they can.
1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + 1/64 and so on.
You will never reach two. You could go on for infinity, and NEVER reach two. Something can be finite but boundless.
Numbers are just beautiful that way.

#152

Pi has 1.3511 trillion digits, according to a Japanese team of researchers at Tokyo University, led by Professor Yasumasa Kanada, that calculated the value for pi with a Hitachi supercomputer for over 500 hours in April.
So no, the number pi does not go on forever. Everyone might think it does but it really doesn’t. So for people who think that pi could never end, tell them that it does end sometime.

#153

from a differnt poster…
to the reply:
This is actually incorrect. As of December 2009, Fabrice Bellar, using Chudnovsky’s Algorithm calculated up to 2.7 trillion digits of pi. That digit continues to increase as computers become more powerful and able to compute numbers faster. There definately are numbers in mathematics that never end. Irrational numbers. They are not numbers that are very long. They really are numbers they never end.

to the op:
the correct answer is no. Pi never ends. Since early records of pi in the 9th century, mathematicians have believed and stated with certainty that pi was never ending. but it was in 1761 when Johann Lambert proved for the first time that pi is in fact irrational. If there ever was a discovery such that pi is rational, it would be a very big discovery in the mathematic community

#154

I don’t think those other two repliers are right, the number might be unbelivably big but it will end somewere. Anyway I think it was another bad example lol no matter if it ends or it doesn’t its still only 3, I’m on about “big” numbers with no decimal. How big can numbers be? Do they end? Or are they infinite (In which case so is the universe)?

#155

Nooope sorry, they’re right, irrational numbers are irrational because they don’t end. They continue to go on for infinity.
Just like the 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 etc etc

#156

Codgin: Do this math equation for me:

10 divided by 3.

#157

you’re missing my point I’m not talking about irrational or rational numbers or patterns (I should be more clear sorry lol) I’m talking about big numbers Googolplexs and Grahams Number, these number exsist because we can use them in a formula, what I’m saying is, is their an end to numbers (Which there’d have to be if the universe is finite). I’m not a physican (Probably spelt that wrong as well) and so my examples are terrible, we need a scientist!

#158

Being able to use a number in a formula doesn’t make it exist, really, one could argue that numbers either always or never exist. Think of it this way. You’re traveling down a number line out in space or somewhere or wherever you want it doesn’t matter. There’s a spaceship one number in front of you, the spaceship is infinity. When you move up one number, so does infinity. The numbers will not ever, ever run out. Infinity will always be ahead of you and you cannot reach it. So yes, numbers are in effect infinite.

#159

Numbers are merely ideas that we use to help explain our surroundings.

#160

There is no end to numbers because we can always add 1, a thousand, a million, or a googleplex to that Extraordinarily Big Number.

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