Hazard Course

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#261

Do a compromise - skip the speech (which is extremely dull and doesn’t add anything) and just have someone say to the player to enter the lift. I like the lobby area - it gives the place perspective instead of just dropping a player deep underground and makes it feel like more of a journey with a beginning, middle and end.

You might be overcomplicating it a bit with the forum idea. It’s one level and should only require one topic. If, say, you use the separate forum for developer discussion and have this one for ideas. You aren’t Black Mesa - you don’t need a separate forum for questions and another for suggestions.

#262

I actually kind of agree with fridge. But a major problem with this may be getting Mike Hillard to do some lines.
Just showing up in an elevator at the beginning of the Hazard Course seems almost lazy. It is, however, the way the original started, and honestly I’m fine with either way.

#263

I think we can work with the original ^^
We can certainly take a few lessons from the PS2 version, like the fact that the suit on a random platform in the middle of a silo on its own just doesn’t make that much sense. And that suits don’t just get left around freestanding, so some sort of container is almost a must.

#264

It really wouldn’t take much effort to add that small part to the beginning of the course though. Agreeing with Floyd about the dialogue, could skip it all together and just use normal sci incidental dialogue instead. Or someone could lend their voice to record some short lines such as “Ah, good morning Gordon. Good to see you’re on time, just make your way down the elevator once you’re ready to begin your training”. Or something along those lines.

#265

OK, I agree with floyd and fridge.
I also agree with m4rek that the suits should have a container, which is quick simple and easy.
To clarify: Have the lobby with shortened dialogue. Suits have a container.

#266

I’d prefer to start in the elevator, for the sake of nostalgia if nothing else. If so we could make the original grey room a little more interesting. Even with my concept, I’ve not really decided on how that room should look or how it should feel…

If not, we could do the lobby; cut the dialogue considerably and be done with it.

For the suits having a container. In my concept the suits have a container in which they reside (the very same as in the main game) for long periods of time, but are presented to the player on an elevator for the sake of effect. In the main game, meeting the suit is emphasised by the music that plays. Since we are not having music (we appear to be in agreement for the time being), the original effect was attained by the suit being pretty much the only thing in the room. In fact it was in the centre of a large silo, with only a pair of pipes, a platform, and nothing else. I’d like to maintain that, and enhance it the way nostalgia and a bad memory did. That is, drop the lighting in the silo right down and have a spotlight on the suit. Of course, I intend to add stuff to the room, but the lighting and movement should keep focus on the suit. Think of the Doom movie, when he first saw the BFG. Imagine that sort of moment.

It differs from the effect you get from getting the suit during the main game; whilst here it’s a case of ‘ooooh what’s this we have here, that’s for me to play with?’, in the main game it’s more another day at work, grab your suit, the music plays, ‘let’s roll’ type of thing.

I got distracted halfway through the post so probably got ninja’d and the post might have rambled somewhat…

edit: If we really do have to have the lobby, perhaps include a console command to start in the elevator and have the relevant info node there?

#267

Will it really make that much difference to you starting 20 feet back and in a lobby rather than the elevator? Starting in the elevator itself just seems such an awkward and uncomfortable place to begin. If you set the beginning of the level in familiar confines - the Black Mesa facility we know from Inbound and Anomalous Materials then you create a journey - you go down into the inner-workings of the facility and you come up at the end, therefore creating a far more rounded and whole experience.

If you start in an anonymous elevator in a dark room it makes the first step an awkward one. Yes, we know where we are and what to expect, but it’s the subtle change from the light to the dark to the light again that make it a journey. It sounds a tiny and almost imperceptible change but trust me - it isn’t.

The PS2 version seems to me to be how Valve would have preferred the Hazard Course if they had had more time to ponder over the details of it - the additions to the suit and long-jump module speak for themselves in this regard. Does anyone know if it was Valve who oversaw the changes?

Also, out of interest - what does everyone have against the walkway across the silo? It makes enough sense to me - they needed a way to walk across it so they put a bridge there.

#268

I think it was the fact that the suit was just standing in the middle that bugged people. But I may be reading wrong.

#269

Ah, but do we know the Black Mesa facility from inbound? Did the player play through half life and then decide to go play the tutorial? Of course a lot of us know HL like the backs of our hands, but again I feel we cannot assume that our audience is limited to HL enthusiasts that need to get their nostalgia fix.

Considering we go from dark, to dark, to dark in the HC, I’m not sure what you mean… The tram ride fades to black at the end…

The other way of fixing that is to not make the first step an old elevator into a dark room. There’s no real reason why the first room needs to be so dark and dingy. Fair point, if we’re gonna do that we may as well include a real lobby, but I feel the elevator is a pretty natural way to start.

You press the Haz Course button, and expect to be put through the Haz Course, so there you are at the door to the Haz course. In my vision there’s also doors and stairs to access parts of the HC for the monitoring/maintenance staff. As opposed to starting the Haz Course somewhere where else and then going to the Haz Course… One would expect the HC button to take one to the HC, not have to get there himself - you may as well start in the dormitories or on the tram?

Another thing is that when you do some sort of course, assault, endurance, whatever, you tend to remember the course pretty well, you generally don’t remember the guy at the beginning; anything before, and often anything after, is quickly forgotten. What remains is the course from start to finish; the point where you left the comfort of your colleagues and entered the course where you are alone, to the point where you rejoin your friends and your ordeal is over. Have any of you had such experiences?

A fair point, was it Valve that made those changes?

The walkway? I don’t mind the walkway itself, but what bothers me are the large pipes going across the centre of the silo. By putting pipes through the middle you block a lot of uses that the silo could have; such as elevator shaft or, well, silo. Might be more sensible to route the pipes around the edge, or down to the bottom? What really makes no sense whatsoever is the suit, standing atop a walkway in the middle of said silo. Why is it there, of all places; how did it get there, who put it there?

Now that I think about it, the pipes were probably just an excuse to elevate that central platform to further emphasise the suit.

#270

Either way, if you make the beginning of the Hazard Course similar to Inbound and Anomalous Materials, it’ll be familiar. They can play the tutorial first and be all “Oh hey this is a familiar environment” when they play through the main game. And then vice-versa. It works both ways.

#271

I say at the very least it should start out with the player in the elevator while it’s going down. That way you actually arrive at the hazard course instead of just starting out in the hazard course.

#272

Curiously, there is elevator shaft above the elevator in the original HC…

#273

In hindsight we do. Even if players play the Hazard Course before seeing Inbound, as Ibanez says it will provide something for them to be familiar with. You say yourself that we cannot assume that our audience is limited to HL enthusiasts - therefore the more logical solution should be to create a more rounded and complete package for the average player, instead of sacrificing this for the sake of nostalgia.

I was speaking largely metaphorically, since the player comes up at the very end into a section of lab that has clearly been built more recently than the Hazard Course itself, and can see the light of day in a much lighter, more spacious and friendlier environment.

Also, I personally think that providing too many modern additions to the underground sections ruins their appeal. Hazard Course is great in showing the inner workings of the facility in the dark, dank, cramped rooms with bad lighting - that’s their charm. As you say, this darkness can be quite offputting to start out with, but introducing too many additions not only changes their feel completely but also questions the plausability of getting all the equipment down there (although you could introduce a warehouse door or some other means) as well as funding, since the rest of the HC is clearly neglected.
But this is exactly why I feel you need to start the player off in a clean, friendly environment before being thrust down into an intensive HC. The lobby really wouldn’t be very big, and honestly isn’t asking for an awful lot.

Don’t be facetious. It’s not unreasonable to begin the Hazard Course in a small but spacious and well-lit lobby before entering a lift. Also, I’m not sure why you mention a course in real life. Personally I’m the opposite - I tend not to remember parts of ordeals that I found brutal and hard, and instead tend to remember the beginnings and ends because they were the more happy. I don’t see what this has a great deal to do with the HC though.

I entirely agree with you about the pipes. I don’t see why they were there at all, but it almost seems a shame to get rid of them. The silo could have been used for other things than storing missiles.

#274

I know this isn’t true to the original AND the devs aren’t doing the HC so this won’t happen, but it’d be kind of interesting if after you suited up in the game there was a door that leads to the Hazard course, and a scientist would mention something about it, giving the player the option to do it if they so choose before heading to the test chamber.

Then again, that wouldn’t really fit considering Gordon was already running late and he’s already a “highly trained professional”…

#275

Hey guys, just been working on a concept for the HEV room.

I reckon this is better than the PS2 version of how you get the suit, as you get the best of both worlds. It stays true to the original design(I removed the pipes because they were stupid), but updated it to make more sense so you don’t just have this random suit standing there. It also shows the silo has aged and once had prior uses, with pipes and vents for believability.
The catwalk/platform is supposed to look more modern in contrast to the aging interior of the silo, and the suspension cables show that it was not always there, aka a retrofit.
I liked the flooded silo picture Fodder posted some pages back, it could possibly be linked with the sewers found in the next few rooms. If the water isn’t popular then we can just use the standard pit with maybe some junk down the bottom, or the mysterious hole that Chrisp made. Any thoughts/comments?

#276

Yes… One mapper could do it. The only problem was that there were 5 seperate people all doing it, so we decided on doing a collab. The seperate forums are there to help unclutter this thread, the wiki for a similar reason. The project managment system comes as an added bonus with the wiki+forums as part of Redmine.

That would be interesting :3
I can tell you that the OL dev forums are more active than the public forums 0_o

EDIT: Nice concept there fridge.

#277

Absolutely perfect, I can’t imagine it any better myself.

One thing I’d like to mention is that, as m4rek said, the step up helps to make the HEV suit more prominent. That’s the only issue I can think of in the design though - other than that I high support it.

#278

Hey! Hey, hey, CatzEyes! Hey! Hey CatzEyes!

You should totally be the holo-lady’s voice (I avoid a name because I mess Gina and Collette up all the time).

I’d love to take part in this project… I dunno how I could contribute, but I’m a fairly competent hammer mapper. A few pages back, somebody mentioned sound recreations under an image depicting the lights on the “1 2 3” signals above training doors, so I assumed he was talking about the DING. I’d assume when the mod comes out we’ll have those.

Unless the plan has changed, I’m sorry, I only read the first 2 pages and the last 5.

#279

14 pages and where are we? Are we bogged down with discussion or is there some building going on in the background? hrm…

And I know you guys would be excited to have the BM voice overs on this, but you really REALLY need to wait till the project is almost done before you start talking about that part of it.

#280

wtf balck meas isent been releesed in 2010 or wat???

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.