I doubt anyone will be able to refute that, Kairsouseki. Extremely well made point. Thanks for sharing.
Re: Neil Gaiman quote:
EDIT: By the way, I’ve heard tell that there were people that were turned on (not THAT way, ya pervs) to the Half-Life series of games by things like Freeman’s Mind and Civil Protection.
Even though Freeman’s Mind and Civil Protection use intellectual property of Valve (and FM is direct from the game), people have purchased Half-Life because of these videos.
Thats a staggeringly bullshit argument: The only piracy that concerns the video game industry is that of pirating games. They don’t care if you shove gameplay videos on the internet. I don’t think you could cite any statistics that prove that video game piracy helps sales.
At least for PC though it seems that companies REFUSE to put out demos for games. So the only way to try a game out before buying it is to download.
Piracy hurts the shit out of anyone who has ever had their work pirated. That’s just they way it is. Somewhere in here I saw something quoted claiming that statistics suggest piracy really isn’t that big of a problem. That’s bullshit. I love TPB and Megaupload, but I’m just saying, it’s an undeniable fact; piracy hurts the hell out of anybody or anything pirated from. As for gameplay videos and such, that’s really a separate issue. I don’t think it can really even be called piracy. Piracy requires stealing. Gameplay videos aren’t stealing, it’s something more similar to plagiarism.
@Kairouseki your quote from the last page sucks. It’s entirely irrelevant to the subject of general piracy. Lets look at why. First and foremost, books are still a very physical medium. The vast majority of people still use physical books. There’s a lot of appeal to having a physical copy. The same IS NOT true of the vast majority of other entertainment mediums. With a singleplayer game the pirated and legit copies are nearly identical. In fact, the pirated version is usually BETTER because you get all the bonus content without pre-ordering or anything like that. With a movie, the pirated and legit copies are the same. Actually, nevermind, the pirated copy, once again, is BETTER. No DRM. The same goes for music. Next, both because the crowd is different and because the medium is different, people are a lot less likely to buy a game/movie/music/etc. out of loyalty to the creator(s) than with a book. A book is more personal, with a creator much easier to attach to than say a faceless group of developers or an unknown publishing company. Do you really expect people to buy games/movies out of loyalty to people they very likely feel no attachment to in the slightest way? Newsflash: the vast majority or pirates DO NOT buy copies of the things they pirate no matter how much they like them. To think otherwise is silly and naive. Even in the case of music, which has personable and in your face creators with countless fans piracy is still a major issue and the only people not pirating their favorite artists music are those to computer ignorant to know how. As for the whole “advertising” concept, that is irrelevant. If the creator wants his work released for free as advertising THAT IS HIS CHOICE. It is not right for others to make that choice for him regardless of whether or not it works in his favor.
TL;DR: a pirated book is inferior, much like a demo. That combined with the higher level of consumer loyalty encourages readers to buy books they’ve pirated. Music movies and games however are a very different story. In all three cases the pirated copy is usually better than the legitimate copy. And finally, if artists can benefit by releasing work for free as advertising then that is their choice to make, not the community’s. Honestly, probably don’t even bother reading the rant above, this is more clear and concise.
I pirate stuff. But I’m not going to morally justify my actions with some silly claim that piracy doesn’t hurt business let alone the absurd claim that it HELPS business. I’m kind of guilty about the fact that I pirate. You just can’t deny the fact that piracy hurts the industry. Now god forbid you all see this and start thinking I agree with bolteh. I am against the government taking down sites containing user uploaded illegal content. Partly out of selfishness and partly out of the fact that you’re gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You missed the point.
People pirate it.
They like it.
They share it.
They like it too.
They tend to buy any past and future things made by the original creator because they wish to see more from him/her/them.
In other words, it actully multiplies the sales. :facepalm:
That, of course, is not utopian at all.
How many people that actively pirate actually buy something (be it the same game or anything from the creator of the game)? I for one know a lot of freeloaders that download everything and never buy anything. They even look at me weird when I told them I bought a DVD or a CD (or God forbid, music on iTunes).
Sure, there might be the odd pea in the pack that uses illegal downloads as a means of testing/demoing, but that’s why game publishers create demos, that’s why a lot of bands put previews or low-quality streams online; That’s why you can watch trailers or rent movies for little to no money.
The majority still pirate because they want shit for free without leaving their home. If what you’re saying is true, and not some form of delusional imagination, then the media industry wouldn’t be so pissed off right now. What you’re picturing is nothing short of a mythical utopia. It does not exist and it never will as long as piracy in its current form remains unchecked.
Thanks to Steam and the magic of credit cards, I’ve probably bought more games by now than those I’ve pirated in my entire life.
There you go, there’s no reason to pirate anything. A lot of things these are days are dirt cheap (games for as little as $5, complete albums for as little as €9, no idea what the prices are for movie rental etc as I buy all my DVDs, but probably not expensive either).
Fuck you America. The internet (edit: the world) is not yours.
The internet was invented in the USA. By the government. They can pretty much do whatever seeing how they have guns and money.
Getting mad at them for breaking the internet would be like getting mad at George Lucas for remastering Star Wars.
I agree that most of the money spent trying to fight piracy would be better spent adapting to the massive changes in distribution that are taking place. I think the MPAA and the RIAA are completely misguided, and that they’d be better off fighting piracy by offering a better service.
But I also think that legitimately shutting down websites (following a well-defined due process, which is one of many things SOPA lacked) is totally OK, and not in any way a gross abuse of government or corporate power. Making millions of dollars from a service that was designed for piracy is an abuse of corporate power.
Also, the “it increases sales” (as though that could possibly be proven across the board) argument doesn’t go anywhere. This is partially a property rights issue, it’s not just about raw sales figures.
Very few games nowadays make demos for PC for some reason. I’ve been wanting to try out Dirt 3, F1 2012, and other games and there are no PC demos for those.
Your analogy doesn’t really fit.
I am getting mad at the people who invented the film camera which George Lucas used to remaster Star Wars. The inventors of the camera have nothing to do with George Lucas nor Star Wars. They have no right to ban Star Wars.
My entire long ass post was debunking this naive concept. Works great for books, BUT ALMOST NOTHING ELSE. The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of people with the majority of mediums DON’T go on to buy current or future products. And on top of that, advertising by releasing content free should be done by the artist NOT anonymous Russian hackers. It is up to the artist/publisher to weigh the benefits and costs and make the decision. Next time try to argue with me by countering my points, not by repeating the thing I just debunked.
George Lucas owns Star Wars. The United States does not own the internet. Lucas Arts is a private firm that does whatever the fuck it wants. The United States (in this context) is a government that must adhere to strict rules designed to prevent tyranny. George Lucas can fuck up Star Wars all he wants but the government has little right to fuck up the internet.
I see your point, but still, lot of movies, games, music, etc that I’ve pirated, I’ve always ended up getting the real thing, or getting something else from the creator of whatever it is I’m buying. And I’m pretty sure a lot of other pirates have done thing as well.
An example I have of this is when someone put some Hellsing (Hellsing is a manga/anime) scans on the internet. I saw the scans, and read the manga from there, then when I happened to go to a Barnes and Noble to get some books, I got a few volumes of Hellsing as well. I did that to the anime series of Hellsing as well.
Another I can think of was I believe an Aerosmith Album someone put up on MegaUpload. It was a few songs, and I enjoyed them a whole lot, and when I was in a small store that sold CDs, TVs and other goods, I found the exact same album, and bought it for retail.
Now whether or not this is just me, I don’t exactly know, but I know a few friends who’ve done this as well.
I say we make a statistic/survey in the USA, or any where else for that matter targetted to people who’ve pirated stuff before and ask them if they’ve ever bought the real thing, or at least bought something else from the creator. Maybe then, shall the truth be revealed…
You’re the minority. Also, the Hellsing part isn’t really relevant because as I explained books are a special case.
Anyway, how could anyone possibly think that if you offer people two alternative versions of a product, one free and with significant advantages, and the other pretty damn expensive and inferior that anything but a tiny minority will pick the second option solely out of moral obligation?
If anyone has read the book Freakonomics you might remember the bagel guy. It was an interesting statistic on stealing/lying. A guy was selling bagels based on the honor system. He found that, IIRC, around 80% of people actually payed for their bagel. That’s pretty bad, and in that case there’s a lot stronger moral incentive to actually pay for your bagel. In the case of online piracy, the moral incentive isn’t nearly as strong so you can expect to see A LOT worse statistics.
Saying “anyone” is unwise, because that includes Kairouseki’s example, and he was obviously not hurt by piracy.
Plagiarism is the wrong word for it.
Music, video games, and movies? I’ll admit that music has mostly gone the way of digital distribution, but CDs are still consumed in large quantities. I myself have recently purchased CDs. Video games have an ENORMOUS physical aspect: consoles. You still buy disks for those (and I bought Battlefield 3 for the PC in disk form). Movies are primarily distributed through DVDs.
Nonsense. There are plenty of musicians and game developers I would never even consider pirating, and I know others feel the same way. That’s quite a bold statement to make, by the way, on an internet forum devoted to a game created by a video game company with likely the most rabid, loyal fanbase out there.
And what’s this about a “crowd?” You think the people who read books either a) don’t consume other forms of media or b) are more scrupulous than those that don’t? How would you come to EITHER of those conclusions?
Who put you in charge of deciding relevance? For a lot of these “bottom-liners” who are so fervently battling piracy (see MPAA, RIAA, etc.) arguments like these are the only ones that would be effective.
I never said that the two versions were on a different level of worth. The Aerosmith album I pirated and the one I bought at retail were pretty much exactly alike. As for Hellsing, the online version was a fan translation, and was far off from the original, Japanese text (it was pretty funny reading all the Engrish though). The retail I got from Barnes and Noble was a correct translation, so I ended up paying for a better version.
As for me being a minority, well, that may be the case. I still insist on a survey though, the example you mentioned about the bagels isn’t going to cut it for me, I mean, things like games, movies, mp3s, etc that are on for download at Megaupload are just a little different from bagels at a bagel stand. Sorry 