I’ve read all of your posts, Garth, I still don’t get it. You’re making unbelievable claims, and you don’t back them up.
First, lets look at your book claim: Sure, book pirating isn’t as common as mp3, movie, and game pirating, but it’s still there. Do you know how many books are on for download at PirateBay or (before it got shut down) MegaUpload? Sites like those have everything on for download. That example Kairsouski provided is completely relevant to the discussion, it doesn’t matter if you’re pirating books, mp3s, etc, it’s pirating, and his example showed how one person got more recognition then ever because of piracy.
As for the whole Group A and Group B thing, well, it kind of refutes itself. What you’re saying is that people who listen to music, play games, or watch movies are less loyal to the creator of their products then book readers, who are very loyal to their authors.
So, in an extremely basic form, you’re saying Group A (movies, music, games) is careless and self centered who would die before ever legally buying a movie, game, or mp3, while Group B (book readers) are so wholesome, caring, and thoughtful and would never EVER bare to see their author’s products being pirated, and the thought of pirating a book themselves would never EVER cross their mind.
I’m not insulting you, but your claims are basically that.
I have nothing but my own personal “prejudices” to back my feeling that book readers are more scrupulous which is why I have offered to drop that point. I only held on to it so long because people refuted not on the simple fact that I was using person experience, but on some off-hand bizarre misinterpretation of my posts.
So let me sum this up and hopefully start a little fresh and get past the pools of bullshit strawmanning and bizarre interpretations of my previous posts.
Corporations and groups being pirated from are kicking up a storm and making a fuss. Logical grounded people are saying, well shit you’re getting pirated, but don’t fuck up our internet in order to fix the problem. Find a better fix or don’t fix it at all. Then there’s the people in the minority who pirate for demos who think everyone is like them, and the people in bizarre denial of piracy, who say “STFU coporations, people really aren’t pirating that badly, they’re just using those products as demos and going on to buy the full product if they like it, or not using the product (pirated or otherwise) if they don’t.” The problem with the deniers is, though this does happen, IT IS A MINORITY.
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo: 17782 seeders and 10998 leechers.
Real Steel: 11635 seeders and 3429 leechers.
I’m too lazy to copy more but those are the top two movies atm listed by most seeders. Something important to note is that the leechers only lists people downloading the movie RIGHT NOW. That is not a total piracy, but a rate of piracy. The unit of time being approximately however long it takes the average person to dl the movie. That’s a shitload of piracy. And who would pirate a full movie just to watch the first 10 mins as a demo and then go out and buy a dvd? A little hint here, in the situation of a movie, NOBODY is going to go on to buy the dvd. That’s straight and pure piracy, not illegal demoing. And this is only one torrent on one site. There are countless more leechers on other sites leeching the same movie. Admittedly this probably isn’t a huge percentage of the total gross of those two movies, but I would not be surprised if the pirated copy of a movie out"sells" the legitimate dvd/itunes/whatever distributor copy. The only reason the movie business isn’t dead is because you can’t pirate the movie theater experience.
The further and further we go into the future the more and more movies are going to be about going to the theater rather than actually watching the movie. I’ve just set up the movie theater experience in my house. I hook up the projector, invite as many friends as possible (last time I had 18 in a room way too small) and check TPB for the latest and greatest releases. The projector was only around 400 dollars, a fraction of what a lot of people spend on movie tickets (over the amount of time that projector will last).
I’m kind of rambling here now, but my point is piracy is big. It’s huge. And, to the dismay of entertainment corporations, it’s not going away. Denying piracy seems so silly to me. Stop covering your eyes and admit the fact that those leechers really are leeching, not “demoing”.
The problem with your posture is that you tend to lump movies, music and games together when talking about piracy.
The one crucial difference between the pirated product and the retail one is service.
When you are talking about games, you get Steam with its huge sales and an ever growing userbase. People who don’t buy games when they’re being sold for 10/15 bucks wouldn’t buy them anyways. Gabe himself has stated that piracy is essentially a non-issue for them (I can dig that quote if you want me to).
On the other hand, you get movies and music. Sure, the first one is starting to get the idea: services like Netflix are a step into the right direction. 8 bucks a month to watch any movie I want? Yes please. The problem is the service. Even if you get netflix AND Hulu, you still won’t be able to get some movies and series as fast as you can download them on TPB, and even sometimes, you won’t get them at all - torrent sites have infinitely large catalogues, and paid sites pale in comparison.
As for music, I would like you to point me to a site where I can find a site where I can buy 24bit 96khz vinyl rips in FLAC of the music I like.
If movie and music companies get what Steam has undestood - that is, understand that most people don’t download just for the sake of it, and that it’s the ease of use what’s setting them apart from the pirated products- things will change a lot.
I don’t feel like quoting his post but I originally downloaded the movie Serenity to watch it and went out just the other day and bought the DVD (and watched it again) because I really liked the movie. That’s not to say that what I do is what everyone else would do but there are people that do that.
Every single time you left out significant portions of my posts leaving statements and claims completely hanging without much of their supporting evidence. Seeing as all the confused people were echoing your sentiment, that’s probably where all the misunderstanding came from: reading your posts.
At this point I’m really considering that fact that you’re about 50% troll.
That’s why people didn’t believe you on that point. If you only have little prejudices, and not actual facts or statistics to back up your claims, no one can believe you.
As for people like myself being a minority, how do you know? How do you know Kairouseki, myself, and anyone else who has gone and bought the real thing after pirating it are in a minority? Is there a statistic you have? No, you don’t have any, only “personal prejudices”.
Since you don’t have any statistics to back this up and only have personal experience on this case, no one can believe you.
Honestly, this is like if I said only a minority of people will buy hamburgers after having them at a friend’s BBQ.
I have random french canadian friends who don’t post in any forums, who also practice buying a game after pirating it, mostly because early releases of games that just came out/haven’t came out yet always have bugs/missing files and you definitely can’t play online.
Here you go I think I fixed it up for you, maybe you should go around and collect data for a while about this subject, then come back and prove us wrong.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
