Embryonic stem cell research

#141

Two things in reply here.

  1. Embryonic stem cells don’t really come from abortions. The term “abortion” comes from abort, meaning to stop an in-motion process. In this context, it is stopping pregnancy. Embryonic stem cells come from embryos that were never implanted in the uterus. There’s no pregnancy to abort.

  2. Many people use religious reasoning against abortion. And when I say “religious reasoning”, I mean “Christian reasoning”. However, the Christian scriptures say that a human doesn’t get a soul until the person breathes (Gen 2:7).

#142

Wrong. Respect is something to be earned, not granted freely. If you are against abortion, stop eating breakfast eggs. Stop eating animals. Stop eating anything that has ever lived. Even plants and fruits.

A child is no holier than an animal or a plant. Thinking otherwise is just mental masturbation. A newborn child has no more sense of sociality than a puppy or kitten. Only education and training can possibly make a decent living being out of it. If neither can be provided, what is the point in conceiving it? Yep, correct: There is none. That’s why kittens and puppies are often drowned in rivers, tied together in large bags fastened to stones. As long as we don’t stop doing that to animals, who will deny us the right to do the same to our own children? There are Billions of people on this planet, but only thousands of elephants. I’d rather cry for every killed elephant than shed one single tear for an aborted baby.

We are not the pride of creation - we are it’s Nemesis.

#143

QED bitches

#144

If you compare the size of an animal to it’s population you can get a certain ratio, and this ratio is roughly the same for all animals. All animals except humans where it is grossly out of proportion.

#145

Shouldn’t the size of the animal’s habitat be considered too, then? And what about endangered species, I’m guessing most of them have that ratio out of proportion too.

#146

I was using a basic fact to demonstrate the grim reality of human overpopulation, don’t get technical with it.

#147

Miss-application of scripture right there! That scripture is talking about when God gave Adam life, and than he became a living soul. Just remember there were no women before Adam for him to be conceived from. He was the first human alive!

To show to you from the scriptures that God does value the life of an unborn, let me refer you to Exodus 21:22,23:

“In case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him without fail according to what the owner of the woman may lay upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul.”
(Some translations make it appear that in this law to Israel the crucial matter was what happened to the mother, not to the fetus. The original Hebrew text, however, refers to a fatal accident to either mother or child.)

Also it is written: “Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man.” Genesis 9:6.
1 John 3:15: “No manslayer has everlasting life remaining in him.”
Exodus 20:13: “You must not murder.”

Also God views the life of a child as precious even during the very early stages of development: “You [Jehovah] kept me screened off in the belly of my mother… Your eyes saw even the embryo of me, and in your book all its parts were down in writing,” Psalms 139:13-16.

So you can see that the Bible condemns the murder of an unborn child clearly from the scriptures.

Just making sure people understand what the Bible’s viewpoint on the matter is.

#148

For the most part, I agree with you, but you don’t seem to understand the difference between fact and opinion. Just because your opinion is different doesn’t make you correct and him wrong…

EDIT: that was @ DD40

original post:

#149

To me, this sounds a whole lot like it’s referring to a pregnant woman being attacked, rather than to abortions. Abortions aren’t an accident, and they aren’t violent. The woman doesn’t come to harm. It’s not done out of spite or hate, and it’s not forced upon the woman.

God’s a hypocrite. I don’t listen to hypocrites.

I don’t see how this qualifies children as precious, it sounds like somebody is thanking someone for caring for them.

:retard:

#150

On the contrary Abortions are always extremely violent. If you ignore that fact you’re completely out of touch with reality. Take a look at this if you don’t think it’s violent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJzSiAPXTiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ

Why did we start talking about abortion suddenly? Oh and ijgs it doesn’t matter at all if the heart is “not mature” it’s beating between 18 days and 21 days after conception. You can see it here:
https://www.ehd.org/movies.php?mov_id=10

Oh and if you don’t think Blastocysts are human beings think again, take a look at the “inner cell mass” of a 5 day old human blastocyst:

I was hoping you would catch on to the greek word for universal but I guess you didn’t know it.
Universal in Greek is Katolikos. Universal Truth means it’s unchangeable and applicable to everyone. But don’t forget, Faith and reason go hand in hand:

The intent of this thread is to show that life starts at conception, not to antagonize anyone here. I now I have responded impatiently at some points in this thread and for that I am sorry. And I am glad your sister doing well but if the baby was viable I do believe both should be given a chance.

My aunt was very sick also when she was pregnant with her first son. The doctors offered to give her a C-section at 8 and a half months to save both lives. She refused because she wanted to give birth naturally. Her body couldn’t handle the child. At 9 months she had an epileptic seizure that killed her and her son. She was sick during the entire pregnancy but if she would have agreed with the doctor to get a C-section at 8 and a half months, both of them would have survived. So believe me I sympathize with you, I saw how sick my aunt was (I was about 7 years old when she died) and if I had understood what was going on at the time, I would have encouraged her to have a C-section.

#151

Ooooh, yeah, NOW I see! You’re absolutely right you know, that ball of 200 cells does look almost exactly like a human being. You showed me, didn’t you!

I’m leaving this thread, not because I’m a chicken, or because I can’t argue my viewpoint (I believe I have, very effectively). I’m leaving because you have faith on your side and I have far better things to do with my busy evenings than to continue coming up with considered rebuttals that will never win faith over.

That I (and a fair number of others in the forum) disagree with you C o’J is our business, as your beliefs are yours. It’s been an interesting discussion but I’m not in the market for converting people, or for being converted.

I do have one final thought for you, you assert that faith and reason go hand in hand; how can they? Faith, by definition is the belief in a concept or entity in the total absence of empirical evidence; i.e. it is as un-empirical (and, therefore, as un-reasoned) as it’s possible to get. They go hand in hand in the same way that Gamma rays and radio waves go hand in hand; sure they are a part of the same spectrum, but they’re at opposite ends (and one’s really bad for you if you get it on you).

Naturally, this is also my personal opinion. It’s been fun stretching my brain, but I’m off now.

#152

This playlist I made shows why faith and reason go hand in hand:
https://www.youtube.com/user/joeb0#grid/user/B29D17AB046900B7

I pray that one day you open yourself to the Holy Spirit to cooperate with God’s grace.

#153

oh lordy. Every time someone says that to me it has the complete opposite effect.

#154

I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here, but it seems like you’re saying that because the etymological origin for the name of a certain branch of religion means “universal,” its values must be universal.
If so: I’m going to start a religion named Truth, which holds that rainbows are made of candy. It must be true, because the name is Truth.

I pray that one day you get off your high horse and accept that people with other beliefs than yours aren’t necessarily wrong, or doomed, or whatever.

You can argue that your viewpoints are universal all you want, but doesn’t the fact that so many don’t agree with them show that they are not?

I don’t know why I’m even bothering anymore, though.

#155

Everyone was given freewill so I don’t expect everyone to choose to believe.

Anyway this will be my last post on this thread.
I found this really cool video from National Geographic, it’s called the Biology of Prenatal development, it’s really something, they put a small camera robot inside the womb with the baby and took videos of the entire pregnancy, it’s really something. When the baby became too big for the inside camera to capture, they took a video of the baby through 4d real time ultrasound. It’s really a new window to the womb. It lets us see the development of a human being from conception until birth with all the development explained. It’s really beautiful.

https://www.ehd.org/products_bpd_dvd.php

#156

And he first became a living soul when he breathed.

Living, already born, children.

Which has nothing to do with the subject.

I’m not sure you do. The Bible says nothing about abortion.

#157

Just today a friend of mine came to me practically crying. She got a boyfriend and she is 15. I know her, she is perfectly responsible and wont do anything stupid, but because of her religion, her dating someone is completely intolerable and her dad is now ruining her life. Perhaps not all religion is this awful and strict, but from the way you’ve been talking, yours probably is. Have you ever heard of “the white man’s burden”? if not, go ask your history teacher. The tone you are taking with us is exactly the same as the one the Europeans took with the Africans.

#158

The Bible also says the following

Exodus 21:7 says it’s ok to sell your daughter in to slavery!

Exodus 35:2 says anyone working on the Sabbath should be put to death!

Corinthians 11:14 states if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him

#159

I know I said the last post would be my last but I have to add this:

Jesus already addressed those Deuteronomical and Levitical laws all at once in Mark Chapter 10:

“It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law”

#160

So our daughters deserved to be sold into slavery? We deserved to be disgraced for long hair?

You think you are so high above everyone else. Get off your high horse and accept reality.

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