Embryonic stem cell research

#1

I’m continuing a converation here so that the mininova thread doesn’t get derailed any more than it is.

Every human zygote that is produced are human lives, it’s a very basic universal and scientific truth.
Think about this in IVF about 20 eggs are fertilized, that means 20 human beings are given life and at the exact moment of conception they are starting to grow. Doctors decide out of those twenty who is “fit to live”. you know what that is? it’s eugenics.

Prenatal eugenics is going and deciding who is fit to live before a human being has a chance to even think for himself or herself. Embryonic stem cell research is intrinsically anti life, IVF the way it is done right now is immoral but if the method is changed it can become moral and always productive if it is done like this: Only one egg should be fertilized at a time and without cutting through the membrane. Think about this, doctors cut the egg open to make it easier for the one sperm to get through. That’s not the way it’s supposed to be, the sperm are supposed to be allowed to do their part. For the sperm it’s supposed to be the survival of the fittest to get through to the egg. If it’s not survival of the fittest for the sperm, the person can be born with many disabilities because of a damaged sperm that got through to the egg to create him or her. The only way that IVF will be universally accepted is if it’s one egg that is fertilized at a time without cutting it open; the sperm MUST be allowed to do their part in the creative process that is life.

Now for Embryonic stem cell research. The egg is fertilized specifically to be destroyed by doctors to collect cells that everyone produces in their own bodies everyday. There is no reason to kill a new human life. Stem cells can and do turn into any cell that the body needs. It can also be instructed to change into Neurons. It’s only a matter of time before doctors find a way to tweak an adult stem cell that is produced in the small intestine to instruct them to turn into which ever cell the body needs. If a woman can clone her own lung using a few stem cells and a piece of her clean lung, it’s only a matter if time before they can figure out a way to instruct the stem cells to reattach the spinal cord. There’s no need to kill humans for stem cells. They can be found in the umbilical cord of every new born child, they are produced in the small intestines from the 6th week of pregnancy until death and it flows in the blood to change into which ever cell the body needs.

#2

There’s not yet a way to tell if an unborn child will be that great of a person in life, so if you have women that are willing to produce embryos like cattle, I say let there be stem cell research.

Better yet, you could just clone an embryo and fuck it up with science while the original one grows into a baby.

Bonus points if the baby is born with vestigial gills.

#3

I don’t expect this thread to last long, as it is one of those threads that will continue into eternity of touchy issues and commonly resorts to flame wars.

But, I honestly don’t see a problem with embryonic stem cell research. At the point when the human embryo is dead, it’s basically a collection of cells. Much like if you were to cut yourself and a few of your skin cells have died. It has no heart, no brain, no thoughts. If you can sacrifice a few random collections of cells to possible save millions from dying from horrible painful diseases, why not?

I also find it ironic that people make such big deals about this, but yet most people wouldn’t think twice about having their house pet spayed after conceiving. Same thing, different species.

#4

I like how you excluded my post where I COMPLETELY destroyed your

comment.

I’ll post it here though, so don’t worry.

You’re welcome.

#5

I reckon its a faulty premise to say that human life has an innate value. The value comes from the thoughts and experience and feelings that are unique to each of us. An embryo is incapable of these things. The embryo could potentially become a unique and valuable human but it’s a shitty deal to trade something that definitely exists for the uncertain possibility of something of equal value in the future.

#6

This.

#7

The thing is tho, the argument against this stuff assumes the existence of something like an immortal soul. which means you got another religious debate on yer hands and its goin nowhere. ya cant have a meaningful debate between people living in fundamentally different universes

#8

You say that without thinking about the uniqueness of every single human being on the planet. In every single cell of your body, there is a 6,000,000,000 character code that describes the way you will look. This was determined at conception. The shape of your nose, the colour of you hair, skin and eyes, how tall you are. Every person IS unique from conception until death. Using peoples’ bodies for something your own cells can do is not the same value in the future. Every single person in the world has stem cells in them, there is no justifiable reason to kill humans because of emotional philosophy, science already indicates that at conception a human being’s shape and hight is predetermined and already forming. Oh and with your philosophy would a person in a coma stop being human because they lost the capability of thinking and having emotions for a period of time? Would you say that their organs are equal value that of their lives? If so your priorities are mixed up. Human life is indispensable and has more value than material goods.

Nice try but many atheist doctors are pro life because of science and the common sense behind it. a Human being’s life starts at conception, it’s a universally known fact which some people ignore to further eugenics or to not feel bothered that 42,000,000 human beings are being killed each year through I.V.F., E.S.C.R. and abortion.

#9

Waiting for the religious zealots to post on how this thread is pure heresy.

#10

Look, there are people that could benefit extremely from Stem Cell research. Your petty morals are holding these people back from having normal lives again.

Luckily, Obama is in charge and he is just as fond of your arguments as I am.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Politics/story?id=7023990&page=1

Hooray for science!

#11

No, however if they became brain-dead without the possibility of bring them back then yes.

What makes a person who they are is their memory, their consciousness, and their personality. A coma does not wipe these away, it merely removes their ability to exhibit this behavior momentarily. If someone becomes a vegetable, however, with no brain activity, then all things are lost as the brain is essentially dead. As dead as the piece of wood I set my computer on.

#12

Potential is not an accurate indicator. Sure an embryo could develop into a human, but there is also a good chance that it will not. There is also chance that a poor student with good potential could become an excellent scholar, but there is also a chance that they will not.

To illustrate this point I will put forward a thought experiment:

If you had the power to abort Hilter, Pol Pot or Osama Bin-Laden when they were children, would you do it?

#13

So if you were a doctor you would murder every one of your brain dead patients who according to you don’t have a chance of waking up? What if someone was going to wake up the next morning from his or her coma? Oh we’ll never know because you’d already be collecting their organs to give to other patients. I know a few people who recovered from a coma but don’t remember who they are. During a coma, people are supposed to be given physiotherapy to stimulate the brain. I know a guy who was in a coma for THREE months, and people were helping him to do physiotherapy every day. After a while the doctor said “he’s been in it too long it’s time to pull the plug.” The plug was pulled and he started breathing on his own, three weeks later he woke up from his coma. So your claim that people who are in comas aren’t human is wrong.

#14

He wasn’t saying that people in comas aren’t human, he was arguing that people in persistant vegetive states don’t require any treatment as they are brain-dead.

#15

No, I would not. Why would I want to murder anyone when they are at the age of innocence?

#16

Not really a valid argument as the same could be said of the opposite. The embryos could just as likely become the next Martin Luther King Jr., Gandhi, or Winston Churchill.

However, the embryos wouldn’t exist at all if scientists had not created them for embryonic stem cell research.

#17

:facepalm:

What are you talking about? Embryos exist whether or not they are being researched.

#18

The embryos are created by the scientists first before they are researched. Meaning those same embryos never would have been conceived naturally had it not been for the research. My point being that the argument doesn’t really matter either way as the research has no effect on who would normally exist and who would not.

#19

Because it’s FUCKING HITLER/POL POT/OSAMA BIN LADEN!

What about the value of the lives THEY have taken!

I would like you to tell that to a Holocaust survivor, or a family member of someone who died in 9/11!

#20

He was in a vegetative state. He had two aneurysms and his brain was extremely damaged. He was being fed through a tube and was being given physiotherapy every day. I know someone else who went through a car accident, was pronounced brain dead. Doctors had to cut a piece of her foot off because it was so crushed. She had no brain wave activity and was being kept alive by the machines. She woke up 4 months after the accident. Physiotherapy is more effective than you would think. People who are brain dead who aren’t given physiotherapy are likely to stay brain dead but those who are given constant attention are much more likely to revive their brain’s functions because physiotherapy gets the blood flowing and gets the stem cells in the blood to the brain. Someone who loses their abilities doesn’t make them less human.

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