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#81

I’ve been avoiding this thread like plague for the past few weeks for fear of spoilers, but I’ve finally seen this film. Time for a wall.

In my opinion this is by far the best film of the decade. No contest. What I really liked about it was that all the fantastic effects didn’t get in the way of telling a good story. Stuff like the second Star Wars trilogy relied way too heavily on CGI, Avatar only used it to complement what was going on.

I’ve skimmed through and a lot of you seem to find to find the story bad and predicatable. Personally I didn’t care, Avatar isn’t about clever endings and plot twists, it’s about a good adventure with a strong message. This film is a very good example of Imperialistic Colonialism, buts puts it in a context where the natives are true aliens, giving rise to the same xenophobia that existed in European societies.

It was also a good display of intercultural difficulties. Cameron built up an entire religion of the Na’vii, which seemed believable when viewed through the eyes of Jake Sulley but was seen to be misunderstood by humans who had not been exposed to the culture. There are countless examples of this very same thing in our own world.

It was strange being exposed to the two races simultaneously. On the one hand you have the humans, which we are all familiar with, yet so much time is spent on the na’vii that empathy is directed towards them as well. For me the result was some very mixed feelings in the final battle. It felt good to see the natives kicking some ass, but I also felt sorry for the mercenaries, especially the pilots. They were just hired guns after all, they believed they were fighting for survival. The Colonel was the only truly bad human, the rest were just being misled. For me the final battle wasn’t the stereotypical “good guys vs bad”, it was just two races killing each other, both thinking they were right. Kind of sad really.

I also must say that the character relationships were done very well. This is no mean feat considering that there wasn’t much intimate dialogue at all, most of the bonds were implied but still felt very strong. It was great seeing Sulley’s original respect for authority and military power give way to sympathy to the natives and trust of the science team. Despite this he was still a hard as nails Marine the whole way through!

I thoroughly enjoyed enjoyed this film and would recommend anyone to see it.

Now, onto some nitpicking which didn’t ruin the film but did make me laugh when I thought about it afterwards.

  1. Respirators. If the atmosphere of Pandora is toxic and can kill a human why don’t they wear masks when riding in the gunships? One could speculate that the air is breathable at higher altitudes, but it stilll seems a bit risky if the chopper made a crash landing or quick descent.

  2. Battlesuits. Not only is the bipedal robot design flawed in every practicale way, why did they give them full size bowie knives and give them hand held guns instead of mounting them onto the frame? No matter, the final fight with the Colonel was quite epic indeed.

  3. Sulley getting lost. Since his actual body was still at the base and they can see the visual input the avatar recieves, would it really have been that hard to locate him?

  4. Tribal acceptance. People have already pointed this out but yes, Sulley got accepted into the tribe way too quickly. In hindsight though I figured this was probably a concession to either keep the movie length down or streamline the plot.

  5. Pandora’s lifeforms. Not only does it seem improbable that a plant would evolve a form of root based synapse to create a planetwide brain, but it’s even more stupid that every bloody creature would develop an organ to access the the network, which convieniently enough allows the creatures to connect to each other. Alas, I realise that it’s just a plot device and an easy way to make sure Sulley can stay on Pandora once the film is over. I’ll also mention the miraculous intervention of all the predators in the battle against the humans. For me it seemed a bit fairytalish, but I guess it can be speculated that since they all access this tree network they could relate with the na’viis motives for fighting back.

  6. Invasion force. Let’s be frank, if the metal the humans want is so valuable surely they would return with a full invasion force or bomb the shit out of the na’vii from orbit? Maybe that idea is just ignored to make a happy ending, or perhaps Cameron left it hanging to remind us that just like real colonialism, the strongest power wins. The natives may win a battle, but in the end they never win the war.

Final Conclusion: Brilliant film, ignore the minor logical hiccups and be in for one hell of a ride.

#82

You frickin’ sucked.

#83

Agree quite a lot with what bacon said except for a few things.

I’m pretty sure the gunships were pressurized with breathable oxygen, thus eliminating the need for respirators.

I’m guessing the commander thought that all they were fighting were a primitive tribe of natives, hence they wouldn’t stand a chance against a few gunships.

#84

I don’t think that would work with the open door transport choppers.

I was talking about after the defeat, when “the skypeople were sent back to their dying world” (to get a shitload of backup I presume).

#85

Apparently this is business. A national army fighting for ideology and a bunch of mercenaries fighting for profit are very different things. So, there would be no need to bring backup, unless J.C. makes sequels.

#86

Wow, people who keep saying this make me question if they got the movie. Not to mention, some of the people saying it said the movie was dumbed down too much.

He was accepted that fast because of 3 reasons.

  1. Seeds of the sacred tree surrounded him after his first encounter with Neytiri as he followed her.
  2. The Tsahik [Neytiri’s mother] examined him and read that he wasn’t a threat via Eywa.
  3. He was the first trained in combat person they had found, they wanted to keep him around to study him and possibly learn their way of fighting and thinking, this was mentioned by Neytiri’s father.
  1. They did have masks while gunning on the scorpions [helicopters].
  2. Because they used the bots for more then just shooting [moving items, most likely construction of the home base they use.
  3. They only see the person in the device, not what the Avatar sees.
  4. See above.
  5. Well, over the course of evolution, I think, wildlife comes first [aka Eywa], Eywa being a living network wanted its children [every species on Pandora] to be able to communicate with it. [Just my thought.]
  6. J.Cameron said if this movie was a success, two more are on their way. And sure they would be expected to return, but that wouldn’t be for at least another 12+ years. Though if you remember, the man in charge of the operation [the guy who was putting] said that the metal was paying for the whole operation, it costs A LOT of money to transport what they had there. even though they mined a lot, they didn’t leave with any of it, and that company is probably going to go bankrupt since it’s returning with its tail between the legs and no metal to pay off the debt or even break even from the money it cost to get there.
#87

Cheesy moments are always the biggest plot cementers. If you need a reason, just pop in a super mystic idea that no one can argue with! (And it works well, I agree with this statement)

Also true, she is also giving her daughter practice for her future job. (Which I assume was the main reason she so perfectly put the job of Looking after the main character to her daughter. Which also setup the relationship etc…) This wasn’t just a, oh lets put these two together so they get lovin, it was well though out.

This I’m not so sure about, he did mention it slightly but not once in the movie was there any scenes with Sully teaching that macho warrior any tactics. (I’m assuming this is because their tactics are far superior to the humans anyways)

#88

Not always, and the pilots never wear the masks anyway.

Lies. There is a scene where the scientists view what Jake’s Avatar is seeing back and the Link Lab.

#89

What scene in particular did they not wear them? They don’t need to, there is a divider between them and the open bay of the copter.

And which lab scene too? They only saw the brain quality on the initial link as far as I can recall.

#90

It would probably have a limited operational lifespan, so using it when you already have a pressurized cockpit would be a waste…

#91

Meh, was alright, graphics were AMAZING, however at certain times it seemed as if the movie was more of a showcase of what the graphics artists could acomplish. (which is to say a hell of a lot!)

Of course it really depends on my mood at the time, I LOVED Pitch Black and that really didn’t have much of a story at all.

@ victus: the lab scene that eggs is referring to is nearer the end, I think it was when the blu team was booting jake outta the tribe?

#92

:3

#93

That was the camera on front of the big gunship, when he zoomed in and said “Looks like diplomacy has failed.” and then proceeded to begin the assault. Another similar moment was the cameras on the bulldozer as he was bashing out the cameras. The only lab scene that as them looking at a visual is when hometree falls and they are looking at a panorama of flames, which is a camera from the gunship as well.

#94

I don’t remember any divider existing, and there is a scene where they transport Grace after she is shot to the mobile link lab, with no one wearing respirators.

#95

You mean these respirators?

#96

I saw the movie earlier this week in 3D, first 3D movie I’ve ever seen. It was a nice experience but it doesn’t convey the depth of space to the viewer as efficiently as surround sound does instead of basic stereo sound. What also bugs me about 3D is that I like to watch the entire picture, I like to study the background and the sets etc. but in 3D I am forced to view what the cameraoperator has focused on or I’ll get cross-eyed. Cute gimmick and a cool thing to experience but I see it being more of an exception instead of the norm.

Dialogue was pretty plain and I had the movie mapped out 20 minutes into it but it was enjoyable and entertaining, the CGI was best I’ve ever seen, not photogenic but the organic CGI characters weren’t suffering from the lifeless eyes syndrome like they usually do. I wasn’t bored at anytime, despite the 2h 40min runtime a couple of scenes even felt rushed. Then there was the themes and such, something to think about and making it not-so-easy to choose sides at times. The world and culture and everything involved with those must have been an incredible task to create, I don’t know if it’s good or bad that the Na’vi had so much similarities with humans and our native tribes and all that, it was more relatable and understandable but then they didn’t feel all that alien which is weird because they are aliens. The emotional side felt like the movie was spoon-feeding me and the cliché rallying up the troops and motivational speeches felt somewhat silly but overall it was an entertaining and enjoyable movie going experience which should be done at the cinema from the big screen.

#97

Okay, finally saw it. Going in, all I was hoping for was some cool special effects, and nothing more, and that is what I got. The cloying plot with its extreme predictability annoyed the hell out of me. There is no depth to it, its message of everyone should get along with nature and human expansion that allowed us to show the bloody movie, by the way, is bad and hurts natural people is annoying to me, and my favorite parts were when the stupid smurfs died. There is no logical reason for animals to have evolved an organ that allows them to be controlled, and no logical reason why they couldn’t just go elsewhere for whatever that rock was and still get it. If a mine is that large, they will be setting up another base there, so distance doesn’t matter. All in all, I enjoyed the special effects, but nothing else.

#98

Even in the 2D version, the botany is blurred and can’t focus on it. If you want to enjoy the wildlife of the movie, try hitting up the game, screen shots look pretty good. Thinking of buying it even with the low end rig I currently have.

And about the similarities, I only disagree because I feel he wanted them to be related to something we understand. To be able to know why they do what they do and react in certain ways. They’re pretty much like Earth, simply further back on the time line is all. Before electricity is harnessed and before bartering came along, but those are both oxymoron’s to their way of life. Since bartering is laments terms is the trading of objects to fulfill ones needs, and they only kill what they need [cue ritual scene of J.Sulley’s ‘clean kill’.], and not hunt for the fun of it.

And as you said in your final few statements, this movie is a must see on the big screen. I’m going to try getting closer to the screen tomorrow and see if I get sucked in even more. :slight_smile: Not to mention, he’s making two more to make an Avatar Trilogy :s toked:.

#99

I haven’t seen this movie yet, but with James Cameron’s history, Sigourney Weaver and a 500.000.000 dollar budget I expect a lot.

#100

The only thing good about the game is the flamethrower, IMO.

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