For the love of god don’t fall into the trap of trying to disprove Jesus.
The weird part is that no contemporary historian ever wrote of Jesus. Even when Jesus supposedly went to Jerusalem on one of the most important days of the year and started a riot.
All the historians who wrote of Jesus were not born in the time Jesus lived.
No no. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not trying to disprove Jesus. I’m saying the shroud isn’t proof.
I saw that special MaxTheLimit is referring to, and there have been multiple studies done on multiple areas of the cloth using nondestructive means of testing. They ALL say it comes from the 12th-13th century.
By the way, those repairs, Max? They were done in the 16th century.
…Which is?
As I understood Soup, written testimony alone cannot be used as an evidence. My point is that most of the ancient historical documents are backed up only partially and they still are treated as credential sources.
All our knowledge about the life of Julius Caesar must have originated in ancient manuscripts. So I’m asking: why are those manuscripts better historical sources from New Testament manuscripts?
Of course, all that magical healing things done by Jesus and described in NT :hmph:
Kaiser, lol 
. I think that his successors were rather called Caesars 
. As for the “emperor”, I suggest you check a dictionary 
Archeological digs can only prove how ancient civilization where organised, they don’t say anything about life of individuals.
First of all, historical data has more than just one single source backing it up. Second of all, there’s a difference between a written testimony and a historical account: testimonies aren’t reliable, historical accounts are somewhat reliable.
Yes, Kaiser, lol . I think that I’d rather not be talked to with a patronizing tone .
As for the “emperor”, I could have sworn the term came from some Roman person, just like Kaiser (or Keizer in Dutch, for example) did.
I thought I was told that in Latin class, but it’s been like 6 years so my memory’s a bit hazy.
It says plenty about the daily life of individuals. The kind of houses they lived in, the kind of artefacts they used, etc.
There are plenty of contemporary historians who wrote of Julia Caesar. Also many letters written by Caesar to other people. And over 900 letters written at the time describing Caesar.
Just look at this page on the link to see why there is sufficient evidence to assume that Caesar existed.
This made me laugh. A lot.
there were three Mediterranean historians who mentioned Christ, but this simply means the anointed, it may or may not refer to the biblical Jesus. Then of course there is Josephus, but recently his works historical accuracy has been questioned by scholars, his works reflect that of propaganda to push his own agenda, and are starting to be considered vast exaggerations that hold little historical fact.
long story short, there is no historical evidence to support the claims of the biblical jesus.
I’ve tried to post a few well thought out and wordy rebuttals, but I keep getting database errors. So I give up. I bet this doesn’t even show up.
Edit: Figures. FUCK!
Contemporary evidence is historical evidence from the time that corroborates the thing you’re talking about. If, say, you had an order from Pontius Pilate explicitly calling for the crucifixion of יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yĕhōšuă‘) (the original spelling of Jesus’ name), then you might have something.
Historical documents != Historical testimony.
Even today, eyewitness testimony is taken with an enormous grain of salt. There are people that insist that a robber took off in a white minivan while others insist that he took off in a red pickup truck. Which ones are correct? White minivan? Red pickup? Or did he actually get away on foot and neither group is right?
“Bob told me he didn’t sign the contract. Steven is the one that signed it.” is not evidence.
“Steven’s signature on the contract.” is evidence.
That’s what I, and probably a bunch of people like me, am looking for.
Firstly, the Julius Caesar manuscripts came from Julius’ time, not written hundreds of years later…and many were written BY JULIUS CAESAR!
Secondly, New Testament has some pretty extraordinary claims such as turning water into wine and coming back from the dead (sounds like something Dionysus would do, but I digress). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
There’s no contemporary evidence for Jesus whatsoever, much less EXTRAORDINARY contemporary evidence.
If I said that Julius Caesar grew wings and flew over Rome, dropping eggs on people, then I’m going to have to show more evidence than “Some guy named Julius Caesar existed and here’s the evidence that he existed.” Jesus doesn’t even have THAT.
I lol’d.
Written by whom and when?
I think that’s the third time you’ve posted that.
The bible isn’t ficitional, it’s an accurate account of the greatest bout of Chinese whispers in history.
First of all, I would like to state I partially agree with you. I do not believe in magic, paranormal, supernatural, or anything else along those lines.
I also do not believe in god, in the strictest sense, however I DO believe that an unseen entity is partially responsible for the species and ecology of earth.
I also believe in an afterlife, but that’s simply because I have trouble wrapping my mind around the void of nothingness that is the alternative.
Second, I would like to state that I did not read all of the previous posts, so this may be answered already. Please forgive me if that is the case.
My questions are
A: Do you believe in intelligent design?
B: If not, then how can you?
I’ve got a question for any atheists here…
Why are you atheist in the first place? We know nothing about this universe and what life my reside within it. You can’t just say, with no evidence, that we were not created by SOMETHING. It doesn’t have to be a “god” in the religious sense. It could have been a species of life advanced enough to create life. Or it could have just been chance that life evolved here on this planet.
We don’t know shit. Atheism and religion are both close minded. We won’t know till we die what the truth really is.
the true religion is Scientology i’m telling you
No, but until then the circumstantial evidence makes for good debates.
Besides, you really have to at least try for one or the other. If you do follow god, and he doesn’t exist, then you’re going to be sorry you wasted your life when you die.
Vice Versa also applies.
Do you believe in unicorns, fairies, Santa, the easter bunny, or dragons?
If you say no then by your way of logic you are closed minded.
^^win^^
Santa and the easter bunny are stories made up by humans.
Unicorns, fairies, dragons could all exist somewhere. Life isn’t limited to this planet and what we have discovered.
Fuck it even Santa and the easter bunny could exist somewhere. This universe is mind numbingly massive. And we have no idea if there is even more “stuff” beyond it.