Abortion

#1

Well, since it’s been suggested subtley in the Healthcare Bill thread, I’ll make it.

What are your opinions on abortion? Pro-Life? Pro-Choice? Pro-Abortion?

I, myself, am Pro-Choice because I think a woman has a right to do with her body whatever she wants. I feel that life begins at birth, not conception. And an abortion can stop a child from living a completely fucked up life with a family that doesn’t want them in the first place, or that is completely unprepared for the child.

Your opinions. KEEP. IT. CIVIL. …Ish.

Also, mods since this is a rather touchy subject, I understand that closing it might be necessary, I just believe it could be good to see others’ opinions on the matter.[/SIZE]

#2

Didn’t we already have an epic debate thread about whether life begins at conception or not? I know it’s somewhere on this forum, and I know that is what this thread will inevitably turn into. That’s the basic difference between the Christian perspective on abortion and the Secular perspective - whether cells can be considered to be a “human being” the moment the egg cells are fertilized, or whether a certain standard of biological development is necessary before calling a group of cells a “human being.”

edit - here’s the discussion https://forums.blackmesasource.com/showthread.php?t=2549

further edit - if this thread has to exist, i’d like to point out that “life begins at birth” isn’t a morally sustainable (or even coherent) argument due to the existence of premature deliveries such as c-sections. Babies delivered prior to natural birth are just as alive as babies that have a natural birth.

#3

I think we should mount a reproductive suppression field, and that’s it, end of the story.

#4

It’s awwwwwright

#5

I don’t think it should be used as a “birth control” thing. I’d like to see it minimized to situations where the parents would be unable to care for the baby, and similar reasons.

#6

I’m not going to contribute much to this thread, but I do have a mental challenge for those that call themselves “pro-life”:

You are in a room. It is on fire. On one side of the room is a refrigerator filled with 500 fertilized embryos, ready for implantation. On the other side of the room is a newborn girl. You have time to only save the girl or the refrigerator. If you save the refrigerator, the girl dies. If you save the girl, the 500 embryos die.

Which do you save?

#7

bscly.

I don’t consider myself either pro-choice or pro-life. Both adoptions and abortions are imperfect solutions. Adoptions can turn out perfectly fine, and I think they’re great for parents who want kids but can’t for whatever reason, but I certainly wouldn’t want a kid to grow up in a situation in which they weren’t loved or didn’t have enough to live on.

Basically I think abortion should be legal but not overused as birth control - accidents/rape/ripped condoms/complications happen.

#8

Abortion is certainly not easy emotionally for the mother, so it’s not something a woman would do on a whim, or something. So why not let the mother decide herself, based on her own beliefs?
In the very early stages an embryo is little more than a tumour anyway.

#9

I’ve always been on the fence with abortion. Imagining a girl having to give birth to a rapists’ or God forbid her father’s child is pretty fucking bad.

At the same time, getting away from emotional factors and looking at numbers, I see abortion is often used because the baby is otherwise “inconvenient,” or would interfere with school, social life, or work. If most abortions are due to these “social reasons” and not to health risks, rape, or incest, then there’s a notable disparity that brings the issue to question.

The rare instances in which abortion would be okay are certainly a good argument for it, but, again, looking at the documented numbers and cases, it’s evident most abortions are due to the fact they impact the pregnant mother-to-be’s social life more than her physical health or mental stability.

Looking at the data, most abortions are obtained by white women aged 20-24. 1% are because of rape or incest, 6% are because of potential health problems, and the other 93% are due to social implications on the impregnated woman’s life.

Obviously the rape/incest and medical issues take a big seat to other more broad issues. And this is where it’s obvious this is purely an ethical debate, and comes down to what value we should as a society put in the life of an unborn fetus.

As for me, I’m still undecided on the issue.

Sources:
https://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

This is obviously somewhat biased and “pro-life,” but some simple skimming shows they pulled a lot of their data from this down here:

https://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

This is an organization concentrated on contraceptives, abortion, and related medical issues. They pull their data from several medical associations, universities, and studies from both government and organizational implementations in the United States and international efforts. In other words, I would say this information is pretty reliable for use in debate.

#10

I think your post reveals a bit of a bias JTD, when you describe all abortions that aren’t due to rape or health issues as the mother being “inconvenienced.” Is a single mother working a minimum wage job accurately described as “inconvenienced” by having a child when it’s pretty difficult to explain how a person in that situation could both make enough money to eat and raise a kid at the same time?

#11

You certainly have me there. I took the information and put my own idea of what the social factors listed fell into for my own definitions. That and I guess I was reading too much into that “pro-life” site.

A situation like that certainly is not a suitable one for a child at all. This leads to the dysfunctional family cycle most of the time, and usually only exacerbates issues with poverty and disease. However if the mother isn’t at any notable health risk, or has suffered a horrid rape, I could see adoption being a viable option.

But that goes back to ethical standards. Especially when you consider overpopulation. Adoption is certainly “nice”, but more kids on this quickly overcrowding planet is another issue unto itself, with much broader stretching damages to societies and the planet in itself.

Looking at it in that manner alone, I could see how abortion of impoverished female’s children could be helpful and positive. (That came out sounding worse than I intended, but hopefully you get me)

#12

To me, there are too many kids ready for adoption right now without enough suitable foster parents to take them in without adding MORE to an already overburdened system. Until that matter is fixed, I don’t see putting the would-be child up for adoption as a suitable choice.

#13

Which brings us back to the definition of “children” which seems to vary widely. Can you honestly say that the vast majority of “discretionary” abortions don’t happen at an early enough time that there is no “child” involved, only a developing bundle of cells? I haven’t seen the statistics, but I imagine this is pretty likely, as a young single minimum-wage earner isn’t going to wait until late-term to get the procedure done.

#14

But ending a possibly brilliant mind is better? Just saying.

#15

There are many possibilities (the would-be child could be a serial killer, for example), but right now, there really is one thing for certain:

Foster care is shitty.

I think those that are calling themselves pro-life should invest their hard work and energy into fixing THAT problem instead.

#16

True. Gotta think of the negatives.

#17

Well, if one only thinks of the positives all the time, the negatives never get fixed. Don’t you agree?

#18

tastes good

#19

Might be politically wrong, but it’s hilarious.

And Dan, I do agree.

#20

The thing that really cheeses me off about the anti-abortion advocates that post pictures of bloodied, dismembered fetuses is that they refuse to answer where the pictures come from.

I’ve investigated a couple pictures – the pictures came from stillborn fetuses that were already dead and could not be removed through conventional means. They were already dead, but still resulted in bloody pieces of human. And this somehow proves abortion is an evil thing perpetrated by Mengele-inspired doctors.

Abortion is evil, but trying to stop that, to me, is like closing the barn door after the horses have escaped… Noble, but stupid. Fix the problems that lead to abortion and there’ll be no more abortion.

Instead of holding bloody pictures outside a clinic and shouting vicious things at women going in isn’t going to work.

Sheesh.

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