Huh? In what way does a Mac limit its functionality?
I know that pressing an icon can be fairly mentally taxing, but I’ll accept your point to move the argument on.
Well alright…
Well, its iTunes. Just a little jazzed up. There’s nothing special about it, other than it looks a little nicer.
Well couldn’t they just replace the screen?
In terms of workflow and ease of use, Apple products blow the rest straight out of the water, all over Southern Asia. In terms of flexibility and price, anything else blows Apple straight out of the water.
I’m not a hardcore gamer (or at least not anymore, because the current generation of games consists of 99% fail anyway), and I swapped to a Mac a little over 2 years ago. There’s not a single strain of hair on my head that even considers moving back to the constant chore that is a PC. Sure, there’s hardly any games on it, sure they’re expensive, sure there’s only 2 apps to choose from to fulfill a certain task instead of the 500 apps a PC offers, but I seriously do not care for any of that. All I care about is how the computer and OS works and how logical it all is, and because of that, I’ve swapped to Mac and don’t intend to go back.
Now, iPod versus ZuneHD… I’ve owned 2 Creatives prior to getting an iPod and I’ve toyed around with an original Zune of a friend. In all aspects (bar price), the iPod wins. If you get confused by the straight-forward menus Apple offers you (which you can still customize, anyway), then I’ll pull your brain capacity in doubt. It’s easy, my grandmother could use one. While both Creatives and the original Zune were illogical, dreadful and as chunky as Lada.
But alas, this is a forum for a game that only appears on Windows, trying to find anyone here that isn’t bashing anything Apple related because everyone else does it, is as hard as finding developer that isn’t lying about releasedates.
Done.
Went to BestBuy and did this. I not only don’t mind seeing an iPod touch again, I now want one.
For me it’s a matter of past mistakes and utilization: I can do more with the iPod touch because more people use it. I owned a Zune and it’s big gimmick at the time was that it had a radio and peer-to-peer sharing. I bought in and realized the joke was on me: only one of my friend’s had a Zune so I could peer-to-peer (which itself was a joke system anyhow) with him. The radio? Never used it.
I think the Zune has potential, and by all means it works well, but it’s purely an entertainment device, a media player (and really nothing else), and at this point in the game, you simply expect more from any device.
In this day and age I expect my phone to be a camera, an alarm clock, and an organizer. Why shouldn’t I expect my media player to do much more than play music and videos (and yes, browse the web) when there’s a device (the iPod touch) that already exceeds that?
If history has taught us anything it’s that no matter how well someone pulls off something later (I liked the Zune over the iPod to be frank, but that might just be my trying to avoid buyer’s remorse in hindsight), whoever is there first, more established, and has the bigger user base will win out.
Not to mention that finding and getting Apps is addicting as all hell and, again, having more users and being more mainstream= more Apps and more support for those apps. Apps are, really, what makes the iPod touch stand out from most anything else comparable in the market, and I don’t think Zune could compete with that. I know the ZuneHD can have Apps, of course, but I just don’t think that there will be enough people brought over to it that will bother developing for it. I hope to be proven wrong about this, though. Even if I have to pay a little extra I’m going to go with longevity and ease of support over a slightly nicer looking screen on a device that doesn’t even use the screen as much as its competitor.
I realize it’s early for the Zune, too, but come on… if you want to sell in a competitive market the way to win is saving the consumer money. The 32 GB is priced equally to the 32 GB iPod touch. If the Zune really wants to sell I think it needs to be cheaper than Apple’s product.
But hey, just my humble opinion.
Zune doesn’t have a slightly better screen, it has a far far better screen. Ipod’s design is stupid. Would you rather have a menu that lists categories and everything is sorted amongst those categories, or just one massive category where everything is thrown in?
Yes, apps are a big turning point, but I would never waste money buying an app and all the free apps for the ipod suck.
Macs are over priced. My mom bought a 1100 for a shitty macbook that has a 70 gig hard drive, broke after one year and needed 300 dollars in repairs, and needs some giant black box to protect it from power sags.
If you tell me ipod touch is better because of all its apps and fanbase and then turn around and say macs are better than pcs then you’re a hypocrite. If something can be done on a computer, it can be done on a pc, not the same with a mac.
Also, I’m sure Zune will have a large app campaign and it’s apps like audiosurf tilt are much better than anything ipod has to offer pay or not.
I hate that “But my friend/mom/dad/sister/cousin/teacher/whatever had an Apple Hardware, and it broke after half a year!” argument.
It’s not Apple’s fault your mom isn’t bright enough to handle hardware properly. I’m 100% sure I can go and buy an overpriced Dell/HP all-in-one right now and make sure it’s broken tomorrow. Does that make those computers bad? Does someone being stupid make hardware bad?
I know people that have Macs that don’t have any issues with them (I’m one of them). I know people that have Macs that have issues with them. I know people that have PCs that don’t have any issues with them. I know people that have PCs and have issues with them (I was one of them). Does that make Macs better/worse than PCs? No it does not. Only a blind fanboy that once heard the stigma of “MAC/PC AM BAD” on a forum and never decided to get a mind of his own to make his own conclusions without going on about retarded generalizations, will tell you that.
Yes, go ahead and call Apple products overpriced, everyone but the insane will agree with you, but don’t start dragging in false information, ungrounded information, or just misinformed information as a cornerstone of your reasoning.
PS: my grandfather died in a hospital, therefore i create the following fact: “hospitals kill people”.
PPS: You can’t deny that Apple’s PR and marketing is a well oiled machine that gives a proper boost to sales. So actually, having a huge fanbase and a large community for apps is a huge plus (how do you think the Wii is winning the “console war” in terms of sales?). You don’t go and buy a certain handheld gaming system if nobody’s making games for it (Ngage, anyone?). Imho, the ZuneHD is in the same boat as the Ngage. The first Zune failed and put a huge stain on the name. Why MS released a new Zune under the same name is beyond me, even Nokia realized it was a lost case and gave up.
PPPS: About the following quote:
You’re quite wrong and this is a perfect example of why you’re a clueless, misinformed soul. Everything a PC can do, a Mac can do (and vise versa, obviously)… For every 10 apps that do a specific task on PC, there’s the same or at least an equivalent on Mac. And if you want to drag specific software names into this, I can still reply to you that a Mac can handle it, maybe not in OS X, but since Macs can run Windows, the actual hardware (which was the subject of this entire thing) can.
Just pick whatever you’re most comfortable with. Neither is worse or better, each have their target group that likes and dislikes certain things. But don’t base and preach false information.
ZuneHD and ipod touch just come down to whether or not you value apps and fanbase over qaulity. I personally am going to go with quality.
A) I’ve heard that macs running windows have a tendancy to overheat
B) Macs running windows are basically pcs with over priced hardware
C) On the pc you have a massive range of choices in programs for every single task and many are free while on a mac there’s only one or two and sometimes none
D) On a pc you can choose from many many different competing companies’ hardware so you get the best hardware for the lowest price
E) Most mac accessories have to be bought from apple so you are at Steve Job’s mercy
F) I am unfamiliar with apple’s pr, but I would like to point out that when my brother’s Zune broke he sent it in and got an entirely new one (not refurbished) sent back to him for free even with an extra set of headphones and a sync cable also, when my mom went to get her mac fixed she ended up with some assholes who lost her charger and gave her some shitty one they had laying around (this was actually from a third-party group, not apple but it was the only mac repair shop she could find within 100 miles)
G) Most modern pc cases are extremely easy to open so if you want to upgrade your hardware it takes only a few minutes
H) Most macs are all-in-ones so if you break your screen then you have to send in your entire computer
I) If you custom build your pc you have a wide range of choices in hardware and cases
J) Touche, yes my mom does suck at computers but she’s had more trouble with her mac than she ever had when she used to use my dad’s pc
I could go on but I am sick of typing.
Respectfully, I disagree.
I feel that the iPod touch is exceptionally high quality and also I feel fanbase is a perfectly legitimate reason to prefer something even if your statement was correct.
WiFi, Apps, and the many other driving factors of the new way media devices are heading is proof that these things are becoming more like social tools. The key for a social tool is having a user base.
I don’t use MySpace because no one else I know does anymore. I use Facebook because most everyone I know does. It’s simple logistics, to me.
I do agree that the ZuneHD does many things right, but I honestly feel that the quality of each product is solid.
Oh, cool! I’ll get a Mac then! We can play Crysis head-to-head!
Oh. Macs can’t do that. Okay, how about we play world of Warcraft!
Oh, shit. Looks like we’ll have to play Duke Nukem 3D head-to-head. That’s okay, a little outdated, but okay. At least I can still listen to music off my Xbox 360!
Damn it! Nevermind, looks like I’ll have to buy an Apple product for $350 to listen to music.
The only problem left is that my model doesn’t have enough RAM to play Duke Nukem 3D. It must be an older model. But, like all modern computers, I can simply open it up and switch out the RAM!
What? I’m not allowed to do that? Well what if I use an external-
Oh? Can’t do that either? Okay, fine. I’ll have to upgrade my model. I’ll just check Newegg for a newer one…
Oh. Newegg doesn’t sell Apple desktops. I wonder why?
Amazon, then.
Holy hell! $1500? For a computer that can’t be upgraded, doesn’t play games, and isn’t compatible with my home theater setup? What the fuck?
Firstly, its not a waste. Some of the paid for apps out there are great. Secondly, there are a lot of AWESOME free apps which, again, makes me doubt that you’ve ever actually used an iTouch.
Well you’ve “heard” wrong.
Right, which is why I don’t use Windows on a Mac. Kthxbye.
Oh yes, these arguments. These “I really have no idea what I’m talking about but I’ll make massive sweeping statements with no credibility and then pick one or two obscure examples to make it work”. Mac has an equally large range of choices for programs for every single task you would want to do, and if you’re really desperate you can use WINE or Crossover to use the Windows program in the Mac environment.
Give me one example and then we’ll have a proper discussion. Until then, please go get some evidence before you try to pass utter nonsense as proper arguments.
True. But we’ve already covered this. Mac is more expensive than some PCs. If you don’t want a Mac, then don’t get one.
Like what exactly? Some connectors have to be bought from Apple, but they’re no different from the proprietary connectors that a lot of PC companies have.
Oh yes, lovely. Personalised examples. In debating, we don’t use personalised examples because they’re so subjective they can’t be used to make objective arguments.
And you shot yourself in the foot with the last comment that your mother didn’t even send the computer to Apple to get it fixed. Perhaps that was the moral of the story?
Oh my Lord, you really have no idea what you’re talking about, do you? Its equally easy to open up Mac cases and interchange most hardware. Maybe you can’t upgrade the motherboard, CPU or video card, but I’ve never done that with any of my PCs.
Well yes, but how often do you break your screen? And surely on a PC if your monitor breaks you’d be equally emasculated?
Yes, and if you like that sort of thing, don’t get a Mac.
If you’re obsessed with price and don’t care about whether you have a PC or a Mac, then obviously building your own PC makes sense. But if you want Mac and recognise that you save a lot of money doing so (cf the other thread on this topic where I compared prices of Office equivalents, OS upgrades, and longevity of Mac computers), then go and get one.
Again, if this is because of the hardware faults, then this is a non-argument. If she can’t use the Mac interface, then you’ll have to elaborate.
Um, World of Warcraft and Warcraft III are available on Mac. So uhhh, no.
As for Crysis, well you can either play it on WINE (though apparently it doesn’t work), or just hop over to Windows quickly to get your gaming fix. Or not play it. I don’t know, whatever works for you.
Citing games that don’t run on Mac isn’t an argument against Mac, since even if you switch to Windows to play a game or two, you’ll still be using OS X for 99% of everything that you do.
Or you could just do what I’m doing and get a Mac laptop and spend the rest of your money on a gaming PC desktop.
I’m so confused by this argument. Why do you have music on your Xbox 360? Why don’t you just get iTunes and listen to your music on your Mac?
Unless you’re talking about Apple TV, in which case I can’t really talk since I don’t have my Mac connected to my home theater, and just use my iPod to play music through my speakers. Though surely you could just connect the audio output on the Mac to your amplifier?
Okay, now you’re just wrong. You can put more RAM in a Mac, see here: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1423.
“Uuuuhh, wrong.” Is a pretty doubtful/fallacious argument. Would you care to elaborate?
If you’d like to specify where the phrase “Uuuuhh, wrong.” was used, then I’d be happy to elaborate.
That’s a little difficult to do when you edit it out of the post he was referring to.
Oh oops. My bad. It was a bit of a gargantuan post so I trimmed it down a little. Sorry.
Not exactly… Your post was shorter when he replied. It ended with the “Uuuhhh, wrong” statement, which you took out and substituted with more arguments after his post. What gets me though is that you make another post right after the edit, acting as though you never said it.
It was a ninja post, so I didn’t see it until I refreshed the page. I didn’t remove all my potentially weak arguments to indemnify myself against criticism, it was just accidental, since I responded to another few arguments that I noticed after I quick-posted.
Again, my bad.
Well, okay, let’s do that. I might not be able to play it on max’d settings, but meh (oh wait, I can on my latest gen iMac).
Blizzard is one of the few developers developing games or both Mac and PC simultaneously, so okay! Let’s do that.
Nah, that one sucked balls, so let’s not.
I’m afraid I can’t follow you there. I didn’t realize an iPod was a required accessory for a Mac in order to play music. Oh wait, it isn’t. And iPods range from $59 to $399 anyway, so there’s not just the one $350 option you seem to know.
That’s quite funny, because I just upgraded my Mac to 8GB (from 2GB ) a month or so ago.
So a store not selling a certain brand, makes that brand bad? Oh shucks, there’s a lot of bad products out there if that’s the case.
$1500 for a computer that can be upgraded, plays games, is compatible with 99% of the PC hardware (unlike Microsoft’s policy to try and ban as much of Apple-related hardware as possible), doesn’t give you worries or headaches, offers great workflow, great customer service and just looks good? Good deal imho… Sure, it’s pricey (but hey, so are Dell/Hp/Compaq/… computers if you check for their hardware that comes close to the Mac specs.
PS: go check out some All-in-Ones form HP or Dell, then feast your eyes upon either very bad hardware (without customization possibilities), or proper hardware that costs even more than the iMacs. But ye, at least it can run Windo… OH WAIT! Macs can as well!
PPS: you can open up Apple computers and replace every piece of hardware in there if you want. But doing so voids the warranty (like with every new computer that you didn’t build yourself from scratch). Sites like this one or this one offer cheaper overal parts for when you want to fix/upgrade your Mac.
I don’t even need a screwdriver to replace parts in my computer. Except for my motherboard everything inside of the computer is easily removed with nothing but your hands. I’ve never tried, but macs look pretty hard to open. You can’t say pcs suck because a few pcs are shitty all-in-ones, only an ignorant idiot buys one of those. If your pc’s monitor broke, unless your dumbass enough to buy a pc all-in-one, you send in your monitor to the company and in the mean time, use your old monitor or borrow a shitty one from someone else who has one.
So, say I have a mac. Oh no, the piece of shit breaks, what do I do? Uh-oh my warranty is out, looks like it’s going to cost me a fortune to mail it into apple and have it repaired. That’s okay, I’ll just find a local mac repair shop. Wait, there’s none in my town or any of the adjacent towns? Oh well, I’ll just drive two hours to Santa Rosa and get it fixed by some assholes who will then lose my charger and replace it with a shitty one.
So, I have a pc and it just broke, what do I do? I’ll open it up and look at all the parts make sure nothings loose. Oh, it turns out my hard drive cable got knocked loose, I’ll just secure it, or, that didn’t work, I’ll call my friend who knows a lot about computers. Oh, he found out what was wrong in one hour I’ll give him 20 dollars for his time, or, he couldn’t get it, I’ll walk one block to the local pc repair shop and leave my computer with them for a few days.
Photo Editing Software
Skimmed through the first few of these and on all of them it said the only platform was windows. And don’t say, well I can run windows on a mac or I can run a program like crossover games because,
A) running windows on a mac is just making your mac a pc with over priced hardware
B) I’ve used programs that run pc programs on osx and they don’t work very well and are a hassle
BTW, mac’s iphoto is shit. It’s extremely difficult to find the actually copy of your photo, you have to dig through your hard drive to find the picture and sometimes it won’t just let you copy and paste the picture from iphoto to your desktop or somewhere else.
Also, personalized examples are relevant because we learn from our mistakes, so why can’t we learn from other’s mistakes? (the mistake is, of course, buying a mac)
Try and find me a mac equivalent of this with as many choices in skins.
Window Blinds
Once again, you cannot deny that pc has a much bigger fanbase, and according to you that is extremely important.
One of you mac fanboys said that you’d get the ipodtouch because it’s a social machine and more people have ipod touches. The big flaw in this logic is that most socializing on the ipod touch is through facebook and myspace, both of which zuneHD is perfectly capable of using.
Apple’s iPhoto isn’t there to edit photos, it’s there to organize photos, and it does that well. You also seem to have inherited your mum’s inability to figure things out on a computer. Adding photos to iPhoto can be done through various ways, but the most obvious ones being “File -> Import”, Drag’n’Drop and copy-paste. If you find those actions to be illogical… Well then I just don’t think you’re all that clever.
Apart from that: you’re right, there’s less choice for all sorts of applications, but there’s still choice, instead of having to skim through a list of 20 apps to do something, I have to skim through a list of 3-4, but hey, there’s still options to perform that task.
And for the Window Blinds thing (which I find a very silly example by the way), there’s this for Mac OS X. And while it may not have a community as big as Window Blinds’ (which is very obvious btw, considering how much more Windows-users there are), there’s still a community and you can still share themes.
So yes, for everything on PC, there’s at the very least one on Mac as well.
Back to the hardware now. Neither loony636 nor me have claimed at any point that Apple computers have a bigger community/fanbase than PCs. We did, however, say that the Apple devices like the iPods and iPhone have a bigger community and fanbase.
I posted links to online stores in an earlier post that sell parts for all kinds of Macs (from laptops to desktops). Yes, I realize there isn’t a store that sells them on every corner of every city and/or village, but they’re still around. Even for me, living in this small country nobody ever heard of, there’s 2 retail stores that sell those parts for Macs (and no, not counting the official retailers/Apple Store (there isn’t even an actual Apple Store over here).
But anyway, you (again) gave an example that is in no way a fair representation of the reality. “I’ll drive 2 hours (this part might still be correct) to get some loser (what makes a tech guy a loser?) to look at it and then loose my adapter (wait what?)”… This might just be an experience you had (and obviously it’s a shitty experience), but again, that does -not- make Apple products bad. And if you don’t want to accept this, then I’ll just lower msyelf to your level of discussion and say the following: “A friend of mine’s Macbook fell on the ground and the screen was cracked, he sent it back to Apple’s closest shipping center (Ireland) by mailorder, and he got it back all fixed up 5-6 days later. For free. While I used to have a PC that kept freezing up and brought it in for a checkup and that retarded dickwad kept the machine for 2 weeks and returned it all formatted and stuff and it still froze up after that!”… How’s that for a (true) story? But hey, at least I’m not the one calling one or the other shit, I’m the one being reasonable here… Hardly anything close to being a fanboy.
And to touch your final point. When someone says “that device has a bigger community”, he/she doesn’t mean: “you can check facebook and myspace on it”… That person means: “There’s millions of apps around (both for free and for a fee) and hundreds being added daily. There’s official apps and unofficial apps.”…
You can actually boil it down to the following: iPod is to the Zune as Pc is to the Mac. PC is dominating the market of personal computing at the moment. iPod is dominating the market of portable mediaplayers at the moment. Can any of that change in the future? Yes of course. By if you ask me (and this is my personal opinion), it won’t be the ZuneHD taking over the position of marketleader, mainly because the original Zune exploded in Microsoft’s face and built a bad rep for itself that way. People will buy it, but it’ll never be as big as the iPod. Just like how Macs will never be as widespread as PCs.
You have misinterpreted about 90 percent of my last post and I’m too lazy to go and explain it in simpler terms for you.
Your last paragraph is not correct because ZuneHD is better because it has better quality, pc is better because it has both quality and fanbase.
@ your second paragraph, you were replying to a reply that was directed at this:
He is saying that ipod touch is better because it is a social tool and social tools require a large fanbase so Ipod touch is better than ZuneHD. This is obviously wrong because I’m guessing the most socializing done on ipod touches is in the form of myspace and facebook which are entirely unrelated to the mobile device you are using.
Also, somebody said the free apps for ipod touch were fun. Name one game that is free for ipod touch that compares to ZuneHD’s Audiosurf Tilt, in fact, name any ipod touch game free or not that compares to Audiosurf Tilt.
Do explain how I misinterpreted that post of yours, because I put down some direct replies to the direct statements you made. If there was a hidden message, do forgive me for not finding it.
And have fun with that one app on the ZuneHD you keep fapping over. Sure it might be fun to you, but not everyone has the same idea of “fun” as you do.
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