Yet another act of senseless violence, this round it's in Connecticut

#41

Personally I’m in the anti-gun department of things (as in: citizens shouldn’t be allowed to carry guns, let alone be able to purchase them). However, banning guns won’t avoid this kind of social degradation.

But anyway, the main issue is that the social and economic situation in the US is at such a horribly low level (and the insane imbalance between rich and poor isn’t helping) that people are simple losing it.

Much like in Russia and China, the people at the bottom of the “foodchain” are simply pushed to their physical and mental limits until they snap. The main difference being the way they snap. In the US they start firing guns, in Russia they just go full retard and in China they start swinging knives.

(Oh, and religious oppression of the individual mind is a potential cause as well).

#42

QFT. Clearly the care and wellbeing of those who are mentally handicapped or disturbed/depressed needs to be improved, but this is not the root of the problem in America’s case. There will always be those that fall through the cracks, it’s inevitable. It’s not a perfect system and it never will be. You can never eradicate the problem of a victim of society wanting to take out his aggression.

The root of the problem in the shootings is the guns. I won’t declare what the solution is because it would be neither realistic or easy, but as someone living where gun violence is practically unheard of, I will say this.

If someone is predisposed to commit a violent act, the odds are they will do this. Whether that is cold-blooded murder or just beating someone up, you can’t eradicate this entirely, only suppress the odds. The problem is how they go about doing this.

Guns are designed to kill, they have no other purpose. Unlike a knife where the person has to physically use the weapon and get up close, a gun requires only that you pull the trigger, something so simple that even a child can do it. They can be used from a distance, to the point that the shooter can be emotionally detached from the act and its consequences. All they’re doing is pulling a trigger.

I won’t say that getting rid of guns will get rid of all these shootings, but I can say with almost 100% certainty that they will reduce the incidents, simply because shooting a gun into a crowd of people is easier, both emotionally (if such a word can be used) and physically than attacking with a knife or some other weapon.

The knife attack in China - sure, it’s horrifying. But the victims survived.

#43

Valid point. I personally just think gun control needs to be strict though, with criminal and psychological background checks on the person and [COLOR=‘Red’]NO person-to-person sell (no more buying guns at gun shows).

#44

It should definitely be a thing. But a psychological check would not have stopped this man from getting his hands on the gun… it was his mother’s. It was her responsibility as legal owner of the rifle to keep it away from him and she did not.

A psychological checkup would have cleared the mother but missed the REAL killer… her son. If any system like that would be put into place, you’d have to find a way to clear not only the owner, but all immediate friends and relatives of the owner. And that would be tedious, time-consuming, and inefficient.

#45

Maybe a government-mandated class and test about gun ownership and safety? To own a gun you must get 100% on it.

#46

Still wouldn’t have stopped the killer from getting his hands on the gun.

There’s no easy answer to this question, unfortunately. I realize it’s an unpopular decision, but I think the way to stop the majority of the killings is to not allow private citizens to own guns. Heavily arm law enforcement (maybe ex-military if they check out completely). I know people will say dumb shit like, “Yeah, but… but… that doesn’t stop the criminals from getting their hands on weapons!” No, probably not, but it’s not fucking criminals shooting up schools. It’s private citizens who can legally obtain weapons, easily, or people who stole the weapons from private citizens legally obtained them, easily.

Enough of this “stand your ground” or “make my day” laws that end up with less protected property and more dead innocent people. Put responsibility to stop the bad guys back in the hands of law enforcement. Like Floyd mentioned, I realize people can still be killed without guns, but guns make it as easy as pulling a fucking trigger. People have a much higher rate of surviving stranglings, drownings, stabbings, and the like than they do being shot in the head.

#47

Guns are tools, not killers. Killers use guns to kill, so lets stop talking about the stupid gun and remember that there was a man behind that gun who fired it and murdered those children.

And before it starts I’d like to say on principle that no one in this thread bring up religion AT ALL in regards to this. Every time something happens someone has to write a long religous message or start bashing all religious people, and I’VE HAD ENOUGH.

#48

GUNS ARE MADE TO MAKE THINGS DEAD. THEY SERVE NO OTHER PURPOSE OTHER THAN INTIMIDATION BECAUSE PEOPLE KNOW THAT THEY MAKE THINGS DEAD.

#49

Good point, but I disagree a bit. Remember that he technically got it illegally, it wasn’t his rifle, it was his mother’s, he stole it basically, and I think that if the mother had gone through the test, she probably would have failed. Banning guns now won’t make a difference, banning items never works, and it’s not fair to those who use their legally owned guns responsibly, which I’m willing to say are the majority of legal gun owners (no statistic, just blind-assumption).

You said that you don’t want the “stand your ground” argument, and I can agree it’s overused alot, but I’ll say this: If someone breaks into your home, and if the police are two minutes away, you’re going to want at least something to use for protection in those two minutes, especially seeing how brutal robberies can end up being (once heard a story how one robber killed an entire family). I think that gun control is one step in a process of helping prevent this from happening, we need alot of other things too, like more awareness of mental illnesses and things like that, as these also played a part in the shooting.

#50

Treating mental illness is the priority. I agree. As far as home invasions go, I was just talking to a friend about it, and I don’t know the answer. All I know is that my family (and extended family and many friends) have lived their entire life without firearms and have never needed them to defend their family. Many of these families live in Phoenix and Detroit, relatively violent cities.

I don’t know the answer. I just know that the solution is not more guns and I know that the solution is not do nothing. I think, at this juncture, the answer is targeting mental healthcare and more stringent gun ownership procedures.

#51

As for the families and friends, their experience can’t speak for everyone, alot of people have their homes broken in to, and alot are killed from it. I do agree that the answer isn’t “MORE GUNS”, because that’s the logic you get from those NRA people, but the answer isn’t “BAN GUNS” either. Make the laws stricter, maybe ban assault weapons from citizen ownership, ban extended mags, explosive rounds and the like from ownership, but still let citizens have the [COLOR=‘Red’]privilege, not right, but [COLOR=‘Red’]privilege to bear arms as long as they’re qualified to do so.

#52

Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant; sorry for bringing it up.

I agree that gun laws should be stricter, but the only problem is unqualified people can still get weapons from qualified people. Fencing weapons through people is a common activity, and I can’t see it dwindling just because the tests get a little more challenging.

#53

Good point. Make fencing weapons illegal too, with a pretty long sentence, and make sure there are major crackdowns on it, that may clear it up. Pretty much be as good at finding illegal drugs, except rather than doing it for a useless, nosey, and morally corrupt cause, do it for a great, tragedy preventing cause. There will still be fencing of weapons, and tragedies, but as long as we keep it low and the odds of it low, it should improve things. When it comes to issues like these, they can only improve, but not disappear, like poverty and hunger.

#54

They’re tools, but they’re tools that can be used by killers. With guns, it’s easier for a homicidally insane person to kill someone, even if it’s not the only way for them to do so.

#55

U.S.A. is a wierd place

#56

At least it ain’t Hell. I commute to Pandæmonium every once in a while, mainly to find ways to get away from my murder charges, and from what I’ve seen, it’s a shithole. But they do take care of my murder charges, so maybe I shouldn’t talk. Just maybe. And also, it’s weird*. Jeez, the education system in Hell is going to hell. :wink:

#57

The main problem with trying to restrict guns is that you would end up hurting and alienating the established law-abiding, gun-owning community that takes gun safety seriously. You can’t punish those who respect the law, just because of a very small minority of homicidal maniacs, and then expect them to be totally cool with it. It wouldn’t be fair for them.

But then the question is: Is it okay to be unfair for the sake of security? And would that really change anything at all? There’s the famous black market effect, and a whole other number of concerns that may show up.

My guess is that it would get really ugly if anyone attempted to do that in America through legislation.

#58

Agreed.

#59

im pretty sure you couldnt take away the guns cuz its rooted too deep into the psychopathic founding myths at the core of american identity or whatever but at least if you tried to dudes would shoot pigs instead of schoolkids for a bit maybe

#60

I’ve never seen anybody purchasing a tiger to protect himself from tiger attacks.

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