Weapon Changes (or lack of changes, mostly)

Black Mesa Archive The Cafeteria
#1

The purpose here is basically trying to reconstruct some of the more informative threads that I can think of that were lost when the site crashed. I did most of this from memory, but JamesKane was kind enough to fill in a lot of stuff that I had either forgotten, or that simply hadn’t been confirmed before yet. One personal note I’d like to make sure people remember that “CONFIRMED” does not mean “SET IN STONE” it’s just that if the devs do change it, it’s most likely only going to be for gameplay balancing reasons that will be done ENTIRELY at their own discretion. Anything in [COLOR=‘Red’]red still hasn’t been confirmed:

Possible/Confirmed Changes from HL1 -

Glock
Primary fire can be shot as fast as button is clicked (with limits set so that binding primary fire to scroll wheel doesn’t result in the ability to burn through a full clip all at once) Allowing autofire rates to be achieved simply by clicking that fast.
Secondary fire currently does nothing, but MIGHT be changed to implement a standard autofire rate when held.

RPG
(Rocket will follow laser site based on(but apparently NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AS) HL2’s following pattern, instead of HL1. This might mean that the rocket can be turned completely around. I’m guessing that it will have minute differences that a lot of people won’t notice unless they specifically play around with the RPG launcher on HL1, HL2, and Black Mesa to compare, but otherwise will function effectively enough.
Secondary fire will still turn Laser site on/off as in HL1
New Rocket cannot be loaded until previously fired rocket is destroyed)
[COLOR=‘DarkRed’][I have not managed to get a full confirmation on this particular detail yet, but neither has it been denied: I am assuming that the Rocket will still be able to be fired and travel underwater, as in HL1]

Gluon Gun
[COLOR=‘Red’]Secondary Fire does nothing?
[COLOR=‘Red’][Judging from the VIDEO that the devs released, it’s fairly certain that the alt fire animation is included, but there’s no way to be certain if it’s triggered by the alt fire button or if it’s just an idle animation as it was in HL: S]

Hornet Gun
number of hornets remains the same, primary fire still shoots homing hornets, secondary fires straight, rate of fire/restocking may be altered for gameplay balancing purposes. Homing script for hornets is new and apparently works well enough that hornets are capable of circling their target. Another point of interest is that they are “physically simulated” though what that means for gameplay I can only guess at.

Grenades
Will be implemented, but hasn’t yet - Secondary Fire will work like HL2, to allow a grenade to be tossed a shorter distance, or while ducking, rolled across the ground
Is ALREADY implemented - Grenade “Cooking” = Primary Fire remains like HL1 where time to blast is counted from initial button press, and not from releasing the button to throw it. This would allow grenades to be timed to make less time for enemies to run, but would also allow the player to blow themselves up by holding on too long
HASN’T been implemented - Grenades that have been thrown can be picked up with the “use” button and thrown as was possible in HL2. If this does get left out, I’m betting it’s due to the lack of gravity gun killing any of usefulness that this feature would have added. There’s just not enough time to grab an enemy grenade and toss it far enough away to be worth not simply running away from it. The only other purpose it served was to allow you to throw it after it had been armed since HL2 didn’t have grenade cooking, but since Black Mesa will implement this, it again becomes pointless.

Satchel Charges
Primary will always toss out a satchel
Secondary will always detonate any satchels that have been tossed out
Devs are “Looking into” implementing the feature that placed satchels can be picked up and moved, or picked back up into the inventory, by pressing the “use” button on them after they’ve been initially thrown out. [COLOR=‘Red’]Cross your fingers, folks, what I’m hoping for is that they implement it like this

CONFIRMED No Changes from HL1 -(NOTE: does not mean “no changes from HL: S”)

Crowbar
suggestions already killed - no using secondary for winding up for stronger swing, or for throwing

Python
Secondary fire, which activates zoom and laser site in deathmatch, WILL be available in deathmatch, but NOT through single player mode

MP5
Uses same ammo as Glock instead of having it’s own ammo, as was done in HL2 with the Submachine Gun. A vmt. trick that apparntly let you strip the gun down to it’s basic parts and not have the extra attachments show apparently works to some degree in Black Mesa as well, but through different methods.
(yes folks, seriously; in HL1 the MP5 uses the same reserve ammo as the glock does. I don’t know if this the case for HL: S, but I have personally confirmed it to be true for HL1)

Assault Shotgun
Chambers 8 shots, not limited to HL2’s 6 shots

Crossbow
suggestions already killed - will NOT be able to pin enemies to walls. Sure, it looks cool, but in HL1 they’re SUPPOSED to be tranq darts. In HL2, those were superheated rebar being fired. I wanted it too, but lets be real about this; HL: S was a hastily slapped together port and the only reason it was the same as HL2 was because it was easier to just leave in the coding that came with the HL2 engine. That’s not what the point of Black Mesa is.

Tau Cannon (this is also called the Gauss gun, people!)
The jumping abilities that are exclusive to deathmatch will remain exclusive, and not be carried over to single player, but recoil from secondary fire will still push player back just like in HL1

Trip Mines
suggestions already killed - no secondary fire to allow trip mines to be thrown or tossed out, they must be placed directly against a surface
[COLOR=‘Red’][I have not confirmed if ‘trip mine climbing’ is possible, nor if it is still possible to plant the tripmine directly on an NPC or player.At the very least i hope the latter is possible]

Snarks
suggestions already killed - no secondary fire to allow snarks to be captured if there is room free in the snark hive and snarks are chasing you

#2

Thanks for this. I didn’t get a chance to read all of it before the crash.

#3

What’s the secondary fire animation for the Gluon Gun?

#4

I just tried secondary fire with the gluon gun (that’s the ghostbusters-like gun, for those who don’t know) in Half-Life: Source, and as far as I can see it does exactly the same thing as the primary fire.

#5

well, like I said, I dunno if BMS includes it, but in HL1 it just showed gordon grabbing the handle that stuck straight up from the nozzle of the gun, then he sorta shifts it to the side and then back. It almost looks like a reload animation, but it doesn’t do anything that I can tell.

i don’t know about Half Life Source, but it doesn’t do that in the original Half Life. Youhave to hold the secondary fire button in order to be able to see it, and it only plays every 2nd or 3rd time that you hold it down.

#6

I think you’re talking about the idle animation (like when Gordon teases the snark if you just hold it out for a while). I just waited ~15 secs while holding the gluon gun out without doing anything, and it did what you described.

#7

[COLOR=‘Red’]There is no suggestion here, so I’ll move it to the Cafeteria.

#8

Thanks RB, the thread I was referencing from my memory had been in the suggestions section originally, so I created this one here as well, but you’re right, it probably works better in the questions section now.

That might be, but you already said that in HL: S, the secondary fire does the same thing as the primary fire, in which case they probably moved the secondary fire animation to the idle animation so it wouldn’t be lost. In HL1 (NON SOURCE) that animation plays occasionally when you hold the secondary fire down. Sometimes it doesn’t play though, and a different animation plays where the Gluon gun kinda sways slowly side to side.

#9

The original thread started out as a bunch of weapon suggestions, it ended up with a fair amount of info about the weapons mainly through those suggestions being turned down, lol.

#10

which was basically my plan when I created that thread originally :stuck_out_tongue:

Sadly my memory isn’t quite good enough for me to be certain about some of the suggestions that were confirmed. I specifically remember that there were quite a few suggestions for the grenades that were confirmed, but I can’t remember which way they were confirmed.

#11

At some point I’ll fill in what I remember. There’s a fair bit.

#12

Wait, how come the autofiring secondary fire for the Glock isn’t going to be implemented?

#13

i recall at one point , only the multiplayer had that option for the glock , the secondary in single did nothing , in the early versions… [COLOR=‘Cyan’][Citation needed]

#14

In the singleplayer portion of Half-Life, it could be used. The primary fire was supposed to be restricted to semi-automatic, but rather to a slow rate of fire.

#15

Just tested it out. In Half Life 1, when you hold down the secondary fire, it shoots slightly faster than than when you hold the primary fire down. I think though that Black Mesa allows you to shoot at the same rate as the secondary autofire simply by clicking quickly.

#16

Quite true, secondary fire on the glock in single player almost doubles the rate of fire but accuracy goes right out the window.

#17

that’s freggin useful in close encounters…

#18

The Glock will behave just like the USP in HL2, so the weapon will fire as fast as you can click your mouse. That’s why there is no need for a secondary fire mode.

#19

Full-auto, less accurate glock = mp5, amirite?

#20

I’ve always hated the Magnum’s sight/scope from deathmatch, It always seemed too out of place.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.