The Glock 17 for HECU Marines

Black Mesa Archive Suggestion Box
#1

Originally, Hecu marines would fire they’re Mp5’s, or Spas-12’s until they ran out of ammunition, at which point they would drop said weapon, and equip a glock 17. Weather this sidearm had unlimited ammunition is unknown, as it is irrelevant- But according to the WIKI, this was removed because it made grunts much weaker, players would simply take cover until they switched to they’re pea shooters.
I think that the Idea was originally pretty interesting, and though it had flaws, it should be revised.
Perhaps Grunts who are killed by a player, have a percentage chance of dropping to the ground in an animation, and whilst down, whip out they’re pistol to make a last-ditch effort to kill Freeman, and in turn, possibly survive.
Not only would such a feature make sense, (they Are wearing ballistic plates, against presumably 9mm rounds, and other weaponry from the late 90’s (not counting nuclear/alien weps))
[COLOR=‘LightBlue’]Pros of this feature:
adds alot of character to the game- makes player feel ‘my god, I’m killing human beings,’ despite how monstrous they’re actions are. A good sense of inner conflict, as well as pity for the enemy. It allows for headshots to have more relevance, and for the player to think twice before charging into a room, guns blazing, or if anything, double check if they’re really dead or not.
[COLOR=‘Red’]Cons of this feature:
This will require manpower, and a at least 9-10 hours to code, animate, and get the voice-acting down. It will take at least a week or two to implement into the game, as well as test and rig so that it isn’t so awkward.
[COLOR=‘Orange’]What it may mean for black mesa:
Not only will this show players that black mesa is a mod with some soul to it, but it will make players go back again and again, having fun that lasts, and enjoying the fantastic voice acting that it would require. “Damn, thats cool!” and “gah, this guy’s shooting me from behind, I thought I killed him!”

Thanks for reading, Developer or not, and hopefully this is considered, if not added. :smiley:

#2

Sorry, but it’s probably not gonna happen.

Plus, people here would be butthurt about OMFG GET CALL OF DUTY OUT OF MY BLACK MESA FAGGOT and stuff.

It’s more or less been locked out of the features, but I’m sure that if you really wanted to you could code, animate, and voice it yourself, and then release a patch for us. =D

As for making people think “My God, I’m killing human beings!-”

Having empathy for enemy NPCs is practically impossible. Even games that try very hard to pull this off like Metal Gear Solid, it’s still not going to work because killing things in a game is fun. Admittedly, in the later MGS games it’s even more fun to go through nonlethal if you can, but BM isn’t the sort of game where you could really get away with that.

Having enemies chatter about Gordon and how much they want to kill him is sort of a story point here. Gordon’s fighting for survival against overwhelming odds, and somehow making Marine characters relatable, while making a moral ambiguity point, would more or less undermine the game’s plot. I enjoy moral ambiguity, but it doesn’t really jive with the Half Life storyline.

#3

Half-Life’s moral ambiguity is getting tfo out Black Mesa, killing anyone that gets in your way.

#4

Half-Life has no morals.

#5

I thought it has only one “Don’t fuck with Gordon”.

#6

It doesn’t explain why they switch to a shittier weapon when they have a shotgun/smg available. Doesn’t really make sense when it happens in Left 4 Dead, doesn’t make sense here.

All of maybe once. If you’re lucky.

Why are these important?

If anything does that, it won’t be this feature.

#7

I presume it happens in left 4 dead because the heavier weapons are too heavy to wield when down on the ground, near death

Hate this idea though, no offense.

#8

Those fuckers in Quake II who had a 50/50 chance of pulling a glock on you after you murder them

#9

To answer all of your responses, I believe we may have gone off topic.
To answer the question of ‘why would head shots be more relevant’, is because I was implying that a grunt killed with explosives, or a headshot, would simply not be able to use such a feature. They’d be instantly dead.
To go further into other concerns/criticism, You have to understand the time period half life was made in- video games where not yet the medium of story-telling they are today, and lacked the current technology and industry of developers to be so.
This Idea is an improvement over that which the original half life’s grunt npc’s had, and while it by no means replaces the fantastic gameplay elements the first had, It will definitely add to what Black mesa claims to feature.
The majority of you seem fairly confident that the game does not require it, and it certainly does not, but If it was included, I know for a fact that it would make the game more enjoyable, and feel more professional.[/SIZE]

Edit: And K3NNY150, I understand your concerns, and Agree- to a certain extent. Making a suggestion thread doesn’t mean there is any obligation towards the developers to consider them. ah well, “they said my story was cool, and then they called me bro”

#10

Disagree on both points. On the former - it defies gaming conventions, because despite the existence of body armor and bullet physics, players expect grunts to be dead when the death animation plays, and finding out that isn’t the case will just get annoying.

And the latter - Just because Call of Duty does it doesn’t make it professional.

#11

And just because it’s professional, doesn’t make it “call of duty”. Call of duty didn’t invent real-time scenic animations for NPC’s. I don’t blame you for assuming that I had believed so, a great many of the black mesa community are also “call of duty” players- But I’m just as interested in the video game industry for it’s entertainment value, as I am its artistic and creative value.
Most people who play call of duty without appreciating it’s development, or that of other video games, are either children, or people who don’t appreciate sophisticated thought.
And I’m not trying to “troll” either- I just think that video games that have elements more out-of-the ordinary, and creative, deserve more praise for just those reasons.
It certainly is a hard industry to get into- and most companies don’t want college under-grads who can ‘draw really well’, they want Artists who have classes under they’re belt, and the ability to be absolutely innovative with they’re work.
But I digress, and I think I’ve gone off track a bit.

#12

I was asking why headshots should be more important. Headshots have always been about benefiting more accurate shooters, not punishing the less accurate. How does that make the game more fun?

As Ramirezoid said it was in Quake 2 which predates HL this is nothing new. This adds nothing to story-telling, it’s just a fancy death sequence for the sake of a fancy death sequence.

How does it add to Black Mesa? What makes this more than just a nuisance to the players?

How would it make it more professional? I know A lot of professional game companies resort to stealing ideas from others, but that in itself does not make something professional. It may make the game more enjoyable for you but what of other players?

Just because something is unique doesn’t mean it’s good. This is a remake of a classic videogame to take advantage of the source engine’s capabilities & to make the series more accessible to new players. Adding a feature that isn’t in any of the other games alienates old & new players alike. If you want to be experimental, this is not the best way to do so.

Innovation through theft? Companies might also want someone who knows the difference between they’re, their & there.

#13

mmh… 2 weapons choice sounds good but i don’t think it’d be good in-game.

Maybe a grunt with a shotgun could use a pistol or a rifle from the distance and switch to shotgun in close range, but this is the only case in wich i think it’d be good.

#14

The one problem with that would be that if you wanted to handle that realistically, it would require the following:

a. An animation for switching guns. This would be the most basic application of the concept. But to make it look good, you’d add more:

b. A sling for all weapons used by the Marines. Not only would it be physically simulated against the character model it would be used to sling the weapon across the chest for drawing the pistol and remain there until the marine switched back to his primary weapon.

See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjvEqpgkY9o&feature=player_detailpage#t=147s

Notice how the Russian soldiers have their weapons slung across their chests while utilizing the knife for close range work. It appears to be more or less glued to the character models, with the sling drawn between the main character model and the weapon model he is carrying.

I’m quite certain such a feature would be out of the technical capabilities of the source engine and would have to be hard coded in as a new feature, and these programming tricks may differ across graphics cards. In other words, incorporating a seamless primary to secondary transition that sits well with the level of detail on display in Black Mesa is simply an unrealistic proposition. At least in the manner I’ve described.

#15

I’m sure it could be done with jigglebones & attachments. Or the soldiers could simply drop their weapons before drawing the pistol. Or simply keep using it like a sane person.

However, having them switch to pistol when out of ammo would make sense. They could use it until they find cover to reload.

#16

I think a better idea would for the HECU Marines to drop their guns when they run out of ammunition (perhaps after 3 or 4 clips) and then for them to be possessed by the powers of chaos and to mutate into one of 4 different daemonic forms depending on their chosen chaos god.
Then you would completely empathise with their plight, especially with the fact that you have caused them to succumb to the forces of chaos.
What would be great is that once you have killed them completely you are shown a 5-10 minute cut scene of the aftermath of your actions.
It would start with the phonecall to the wife of the soldier who would then proceed to cry and then tell the children that their daddy had died at the hands of a crazed scientist in a bionic suit.

Then of course there would be the scene where the children are sent to councilling sessions. The funeral scene would be especially poignant.

This would really make you feel the consequences of your actions, especially after you have been forced to watch this cutscene for every soldier you kill.

#17

Warhammer 40K : Gordon Freeman

New Codex NAO

Seriously. He deserves his own.

#18

Karamazov, you win the thread.

#19

You could probably better achieve this affect with the occasional marine slowly crawling away, and if freeman approaches begging for, help, his life, or to be put out of his misery; only to die shortly afterwards.

Either way, neither of these are going to be implemented.

^This.

#20

This discussion just makes me hope for a mod for HL2 and it’s eps with all the features of BM, that much more.

Also, while I don’t really want to feel bad for the marines anyway, an ‘occasional’ one crawling away begging for you to end his life, seems like it’d be pretty easy after the 4th time you do it. One time maybe, but occasionally? It’d turn into this:

First time:

Soldier: Please…kill me…chokes up blood
Me: tears up, points gun, shoots

Second time:

Soldier: Please kill me…chokes up blood
Me: Oh…oh god…it’ll all be over soon… shoots

Third time:

Soldier: Please kill me…chokes up blood
Me: Again? Well alright. shoots

Fourth time:

Soldier: Plea-shoots
Me: ded.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.