This basically. These are my only qualms with TF2.
ESPECIALLY unlockables.
Hats…
Ruined TF2?
lolololololol.
Even though I permanently quit TF2 after the demoman/soldier update, I must say that the $50 I paid for the Orange Box was well worth it considering I played TF2 for 174 hours. That sort of value is rare in games.
I think that was a reply to Medivilae…
In another thread I specified gameplay-affecting unlockables. It doesn’t matter if these things are not explicitly more powerful than oneanother (despite being labeled "[COLOR=‘PaleTurquoise’]Level 5 "), but the fact I am unable to get TF2 and start off backburning? That is a horrible, horrible fact, despite how many people I’ve toasted, how many snipers I’ve flanked, how many heavies I’ve ambushd, how many spies I’ve crowbarred.
What’s worse? Start playing as soldier, and meet another soldier whose rockets are much faster than yours and do more damage. He’s got good aim, and it doesn’t matter if your aim is better. You never had the option of this weapon… and you won’t for some time. You’ll have to make do, because congratulations, you’re new.
I forgot to add that the lack of flags ruin dustbowl. Epic demoman pipe-powered flying caps are a thing of the past.
TF2. There’s no skill involved in TFC.
I liked TFC because I was skilled in it.
I like TF2 because it’s fun(ny).
Incorrectly implying there is skill involved in TF2.
TF2 is far less skillful than TFC. TF2 is about spam, in TFC you still had to aim to hit something.
hurr hurr grenades everywhere as soon as you have low HP.
Yes, you could spam in TFC, but there was also the option of being skilled (like priming your nades). In TF2 it’s all spam, no other option.
THIS SUMMER[/SIZE]
OND KAJA IS…[/SIZE]
ILLDEATH[/SIZE]
jesus christ I never realized how unoriginal Blue is… One medic for capping, one sniper to annoy enemy snipers, a few engineers for safety, and the rest soldiers !
I’ve never bitched about not having additional items from the start. Didn’t give a shit at all. And now, while I still don’t have Direct Hit, I don’t bitch because I’m still able for me to kicks asses with default RL (because it’s good enough), including the DH owners’ asses. And I don’t play 5 times a day, or otherwise I’d have all unlockables.
And whoever says TF2 is only about spam is an enormous dort who never played the game.
Yeah, but nobody does bitch with something that seems like it’s just out of reach, that seems their own responsibility to reach (while veteran players are given an unfair advantage of choice, for every round until those achievements are met).
You probably wouldn’t complain about WoW-level-grinding either, after all.
We’re just too wise to complain while we keep playing a game we supposedly hate.
But in the objective view of game design, from afar, we can criticize without resorting to hypocrisy. It’d be nice if Valve didn’t rely on peoples’ addiction to levelling, to earning and unloking for the future. But that was part of their decision to make TF2 a glue for the masses, and they’ve made it. It’s just how it is, and too late to change.
In my eyes, it could have been eased if they chose a less permanent method of elitism. Team Fortress is a round-based game, and a round-based game it could stay. Let’s say, the top scorer on each team has access to their unlockables, and on death they drop whatever weapon-slot’s unlockable of whatever class that killed them. Toward the end, every player could have picked up some of their class’s unlockables. It rewards both skill and achieved experience, without creeating a divided society - - only a couple of token-leaders for their team.
Plain old-fashioned innovation, versus plain old-fashioned discrimination. 
Terribly sorry, but I can’t see how this can be called “a discrimination” or “elitism”, neither I can see how this gives an “unfair advantage” to the owners.
It doesn’t affect the gameplay in any significant way.
EDIT: And it’s completely pointless to compare WoW and TF2 systems, since they have nothing in common. While WoW does revolve around leveling and getting items, TF2 doesn’t. Plus it’s free. You don’t need to pay for an additional month to level up and get some new items.
There is absolutely no need to make an elephant out of a fly. Stop moaning, you cancerous twats.
P.S. : Neotokyo had the very same system you’re talking about, and where is it now?
Each aspect from WoW and TF2 may be complainable. They have similar game mechanics, in fact, requiring a certain amount of activity to have an option. (Some games require levelling for the ability to sit, you know. The only difference TF2 has is if Sitting replaces… Crouching…or something.)
It’s a choice, and whether its impact is big or small, it’s still an impact which supercedes simple visuals. It affects gameplay. There’s no reason to defend unlockables with how synonymous they are with existing items…
Doesn’t that synonymity mean the game contains pointless additions, violating the KISS ideal? If the $1 bill were limited to red states, and instead a bill worth $1.05 were distributed through blue states, would it make a difference? No, not really… but we oppose it because of its lack of necessity.[COLOR=‘Black’]In retrospect, maybe the blue states with all their change would become metal-rich, as if they aren’t already…
Anyway, the unfair advantage is in choice. Expertise. I’ve avoided rockets my whole life (except when I needed a boost), and flanked heavies and snipers most of it too. You think I wouldn’t do wonders with the “Backburner” getting extra damage with something called “criticals”? Extra damage I can understand, giving it a name is fucking bizarre, for people who don’t understand strategy on a fundamental level.
Why, if I were to play, would I compete with pyros who have these things and be unable to use them for myself? I assure you, I have every convertible Pyro achievement, performed in TFC. And yet I would be disadvantaged the second I choose to play TF2. That is the discrimination of which I speak. They’re more interested in keeping the player’s they’ve grabbed through the Orange Box than creating a game which can live on through new sales and downloads.
Oh, wait, you’re on the fail-train too…
What the fuck is Neotokyo, some JMMORPG bundle of sticks? Get that discharged-shit out of my face, I can’t fathom a memory of that ever existing… for some reason the name reminds me of Jet Grind Radio. It never had a name to begin with, so I wouldn’t get all boo-hissy-hoo about its extinction. My ideas come originally, and I can’t help it if some autistic japanese child sputtered it years earlier. And whatever the fuck it was, I doubt it had classes. I doubt it was anything near TFC. Fuck, if I run through even the NAME “Team Fortress” taking letters out of “Neotokyo”, I get “Ntokyo”.
How you could even think “Neotokyo” resembles my alternative TF2 unlockables method, and refuse the similarity between level-grinding and playing lots of TF2 to unlock a skill or even a useless article of clothing, just speaks wonders of your mental congruence to that of an intelligible human being.
Get out of my sight.
[COLOR=‘DarkSlateGray’](Err, cancel that last request, it appears you’ve been complying for quite some time. I’m actually just guessing what you’d have said and replying as if you’ve been your usual predictable self…) [COLOR=‘Black’]“This user is on your Ignore List.”
Hey, people, sorry but you are fighting for nothing. The purpose of the thread was for everyone to say whether one prefer TFC or TF2 and why, not to get into an useless discussion like “Mine is better” - “No, mine is better”.
Some people like the achievements and unlockables, some don’t. If you like it, you play it, if you don’t, you don’t play, period, no need to get nervous with each other about it. It is just a game, no one should care if it is “fare”, only if it is “fun”, and that depends on taste.
I, for one, don’t give a shit about unlockable weapons because, whenever I unlock some weapon, I just find it useless compared to the original one, or at most just as good. I play to kill people, to win battles, steal the briefcase from the other team, not to unlock weapons, and I’m fine with TF2 regardless.
Actually, my entire purpose of making this thread was to get Tiki to bitch. 
That, and because I thought it would be a fun little debate thread. Though the main show is Tiki going “OMG DA CAZUAL SPIES R SAPPIN MA GAEMS!”
In this case, congratulations and sorry for ruining it 
(or at least trying to, I don’t know if I succeeded yet)