Like I said man, I meant no offense either, and definitely none taken! I’m still grateful as to your help with the furnace section.
I understand you may have concerns about the set pieces being too big, but I don’t think it’s a problem. I haven’t had any other complaints about that yet. There have been many complaints about the way I’ve implemented them, but as far as I can remember nobody’s actually objected to the scenes themselves. But we’ll see. You may be right, but I don’t think so.
The gasworks racking has already been deleted. I got rid of it pretty much straight after I made the video. I had an idea for how to fill up the area but then changed it to something else. So that’s all dealt with. The gasworks is looking better than ever now - the crashed Apache plunged through the roof looks great!
Well looking forward to the next update… And keep up the great work…
Oh about the garg how is he set up to move… He obviously has AI but is directed by Info targets?
Is it possible to make it more difficult to reach the tower to get to the artillary targeting device I think this is key to making the scene work better.
Somthing to do with the water reserve is the point of refuge to escape first
So the garg is a threat and initially there is no way up the tower from the start without dying… Also the Area is mostly redundant the way it is currently set up.
Just another idea but to have a HECU Squad on foot show up might lure him away temporarily giving you the window to get up the tower…But you need to get to a certain place for this window to appear so it’s doable
Make it the jump pad and ladder is more difficult to reach and cannot be done straight away from running from the tunnel without the garg catching you… Put a see through metal fence and only have the jump pad reachable from the water reserve along the top of the pipes running towrds the tower that reach the jump pad on the other side of the fence. Fenced off all the way from the road down to the water reserve
Conclusive Idea (sorry babbling a bit but to see how I got here)
Like the route this player took first stop, make the building straight ahead an accessable main door (slowly opens giving the garg time to catch up) this works only if you use the artillary to gain access to forget about freeman the water tower is fenced off from the road Garg can chase you into this area with the car… as is the only refuge at this point from here down a hatch and out of a pipe into the canal then up the ladder at the top the garg can attack you again here by the comms tower so you have to jump in the water reserve and take the stairs to the pipes as again sealed off on the left by a large pipe you cannot go around the rim to esacpe and the garg is blocking the route to the tower this way i.e. certain death. then from the pipes you have jump pad access now or ladder access if need be (but not straight away I think it’s important.) Garg can break the fence and will do this as soon as you drop into the canal probably
Somewhow having the garg look down on you while you swimming in the water could be good? The Garg distraction time window would be shortly after you land in the water reserve and get on the platform to the stairs…machine gun fire, garg screams and runs off there is the chance to get to the tower. Perhaps the Hecu for the distraction can be seen through a glass window with the area with the car if you use the building canal escape route. The garg breaking the fence after you drop in the canal also provides access for the HECU to attack him here and the door to this area shuts that you opened earlier meaning you still need to destroy the comms tower
Hope you like this idea to expand it and I think it will make it a lot tighter
Tried my hand at modelling cinematic physics for the blast door using XSI, failed miserably. It’s hell out there, I tell you!
If anyone knows how to model cinematic physics using XSI, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
I desperately need help with this. The 3 scenes involving doors being destroyed look awful without it. I’ve tried repurposing Black Mesa’s doors to fit the scenes but they don’t.
The modelling of the door itself should be relatively simple. I’ve already prepared a VMF in Hammer which can be imported into XSI. But I’ve never modeled, let alone used XSI before, so I have no idea what comes after. If you’re willing to help, or know someone who might be willing to, please let me know.
Look at my C2A5G video where the tank bursts out of the Silo for an example of what I’m talking about.
There are 3 scenes in my 3 levels where a door that looks like that is destroyed in that manner:
The TOW Scene where you destroy the door with it
That scene with the tank bursting out
The Gargantua bursting out right in front of you
The BM version of this map has a Garg prying the doors open, which was also reused for once you escape outside.
I want the Garg making an explosive entrance, bursting through the door. Even if I didn’t have this scene with the garg, the door being burst open would still need to be modeled for the two other scenes anyway.
Maybe you should put this on moddb? I think you’re more likely to find help over there. I’d love to help, but unfortunately I don’t know anything that could be helpful.
Make this a brushbased Geometry Door Like you have now but make it look heavier… I can do this for you if you want carve physboxes into it
The Tank / APC can burst through a security barrier instead… It’s unlikely that a tank or an APC will burst through solid thick heavy metal doors anyway
The Gargantua can burst through a wall instead… It’s not only easier but you don’t expect things to burst through walls… Things bursting through doors are more common and more expected than walls… Wall is softer than the door which stops the garg for a bit later on and has to pry them open Infact more of a surprise if you see a door and he comes through the wall… Made of win that one
and my last point is you don’t want the same door destruction 3 times in the space of 10 - 15 minutes gameplay but if your really stuck on the idea of 3 doors to be destroyed the same way then you have to do this model cinematic physics stuff
I had this Idea the other day when playing the garg chase scene:
-When you reach the almost closed blast doors. put some HECUs there, closing the gate and when they see you, they put their weapons ready to fire, but then the garg comes and they flee.
-I was thinking that part didnt made much sence, and I was thinking to make that map bigger, and once you leave the tunnel, the scatered HECU try to fire at the garg, but once it sets free, they run to the next gate (the one you cant open), but their buddys have close it and they are then massacrated by the garg, he thens turns atention to you and now you use the mortars as intended.
Physboxes, while they are sort of an acceptable compromise, the physics for it are calculated at runtime - meaning that it will perform badly on not-good computers. That’s the compromise that cinematic physics makes - you can program more detailed realistic simulations at low cost. If the door breaks into 56 smaller pieces, that’s the CPU having to calculate the physics for 56 pieces interacting with each other and with the world. It’s expensive. Cinematic physics are the best thing for sure.
By saying the same 3 doors destroyed I don’t mean the same destruction sequence, you misunderstood me here. All the doors which get destroyed have the same visual look (and hence can use the same model), but they will be destroyed differently. Door 1 will sorta disintegrate and be blown to pieces. Door 2 will simply be broken and pushed. Door 3 will be violently tossed around.
It’s getting the model constructed and into a valid state where the physics can be calculated which is what I can’t do.
I get you but you only “have to” Blow one door up…
Just trying to make sure you don’t restrict yourself by your own ideas anyway there’s always alternatives is what I am trying to say it’s weather you are comfortable with the alternatives so if your not then you have to find someone to do this cinematic physics
The door in the original was only a shutter too like what you have so the change is making things more difficult… It does not have to be a massive heavy blast door but it’s up to you ultimatley
TextFamGuy, when you get to adding the tentacle and apache desert chase back, would you try to make the mines invisible (or less visible somehow)? I feel that the easily visible mines make the minefield zones pointless since you can easily despose of them without much risk.
off topic @ryan the invisible mines from hl1 where one of the worst parts of the game gameplay wise while it was a challenge it was a pain to every one that couldn’t memorize the layout aka every one .
on topic: I am with ronster on the garg through the wall thing, would be a lot cooler and would scare the crap out of some players on their first play through, you see the door and know the location you think hey the gargs going to come from there, then bang nope you where wrong. just a note on the hecu, once they see the garg you should have one try and run with the player only to die before the mortar tower (unable to get up there so gets burned). that’s just throwing things against a wall (literally and figuratively)
side note/idea: if you are going to have the hecu see the player then the garg enter have them stop being hostile to the player once the garg enters. (big biomech is more of a danger than a scientist with a crowbar no mater how many tanks he take out.)
All of these changes would be fantastic and they the ones I’m personally hoping to see as they would essentially perfect Surface Tension. Note that if the Apache continues to hound you in C2A5B, it will definately need an accuracy nerf for its minigun and hellfire missles (think Combine chopper chase in HL2, where you take little damage while moving and a lot while stationary). The Apache weapons are a little too powerful in their current incarnation unless several revisions are made to the terrain to provide hiding spots.
This is very sexy. While the Abrahms slowly turning toward you is a great "oh shit"moment, consider also testing a Bradley in place of it. It seems like the tunnel is a little too narrow to realistically squeeze in a tank and it might end up looking a little awkward.
Having the Garg burst out from a wall Kool-Aid guy style is not a bad idea but probably should be used only as a last resort. TEXT has to figure out the cinematic modeling part, or he’s still gonna have the same problems with the other doors in the previous set pieces. However, if the wall thing does get used, it should appear partially damaged to make it realistic for the Garg to burst through. Otherwise, players would be left to wonder why the Garg can’t punch through the partially open metal door as well.
C2A5I layout
The only suggestion I have for the airstrike courtyard is to make a connection between the pool and the water area that partially surrounds the entrance to FaF or alternatively, some hidden way to get back to the airstrike tower that the Garg cannot access. Once the Garg AI is fixed, if the player gets trapped in the pool, it seems the creature could just lord over the area and prevent him from getting back on the tower, which is a serious problem. In contrast to what some of the other posters are suggesting, I don’t think there’s any need to revise the layout or enemy placement of C2A5I too heavily…it’s too much work for too little reward.
Best of luck and be sure to post a video of this section too. We’re all curious to see your revision!
Agree completely. From a gameplay standpoint, there is no way to make the mines “less visible”…it’s either visible or invisible, the latter of which would be even worse in BMS than it is in HL. This is because the minefield section is somewhat expanded, with wider areas and more mines, which makes it more difficult to clear them out without a significant expenditure of ammo or grenades. Besides, the mines look great, as their appearance is based on real-life antipersonnel mines. Fixing this would probably just be a waste of time and would worsen gameplay instead of improving it.
I agree with pretty much everything you have said.
I have already put a Bradley there instead of an Abrams - the moment I placed the Abrams I knew it was way too big. So now there’s a Bradley instead. It’s still a good “oh shit” moment.
I don’t want the Garg bursting through a wall. The cinematic physics for a concrete wall are going to be hell to model in comparison to a garage door which can be broken down into strips of metal, and as Wangman said, it’s going to be difficult to explain why a Garg can punch through a concrete wall and not some half-open doors.
I’m not changing the courtyard layout much. In fact, I don’t intend to change C2A5I much. The Garg encounter is different, and I’m hoping to fix his bugs, but that’s about it. The two pools I will connect together via a tunnel, and I will move some obstacles so the Garg can move around the two pools, watching you while you swim. I will add a little sewer tunnel to one of the pools which allows you to swim back to near the entrance to the courtyard unnoticed, allowing you to climb the tower without being hounded by the Garg.
If I can think of a way to prevent the player on climbing up the tower upon entering the courtyard, I can make it so they jump in the water and THEN find a way to climb up the tower. But I’m probably just going to do what I said above.
Sorry guys, I don’t plan on massively overhauling this bit.
As for the question about the mines, I can’t change that, so debate about it is pointless. The Mines are a brush based entity in Hammer which I can’t even begin to figure out. They stretch up to the skybox and very far down, so I’m not sure moving them will even affect their visible placement. That, and I don’t really think it’s too necessary either.
Hi TextFAMGUY1 ! I follow your work since the beginning and want first to thank you for this.
As for C2A5I, did you plan to add a more destructible environnement ? In HL1, we could destroy walls and towers with the mortar and I was desappointed that we can’t in BM…
I might. Doesn’t seem terribly important to me though I understand why some miss it.
As to the progress on C2A5I, nearly done. The scene is still wonky but it’s better than I think it was in vanilla BM. His entry needs work but I’ve got the mortar scene a lot better than before.
He no longer has an insatiable desire to shake the tower, though he does walk over to it. But this still makes it far less ridiculous. When you drop in the water he no longer runs off and starts shaking the tower, but he stands by the tower and waits. I’m hoping to do better than this but it’s still better than before!
I’ll explain the entity setup for those who don’t understand it, it’s actually pretty simple.
There is an ai_goal_actbusy on the tower which is set to influence only the Garg. There is a trigger on top of the tower which activates the goal when the player is touching it, and turns it off when the player stops.
By the base of the tower there are 2 info_node_hints which have assigned to them the animation for the tower shake, which are only used by the ai_goal_actbusy.
My assumption as to why the scene was broken in BM is because the garg defaults to the actbusy routine the minute he loses sight of the player (when the player drops in the water), or is unable to reach him. My current solution is that the 2 info_node_hints are disabled by default and are only enabled when the player touches the trigger on the tower.
The courtyard has a trigger_multiple brush covering it which fires the output UpdateEnemyMemory, targetting the Garg with the parameter override of the player, meaning while the player stands in this brush the Garg will know where he is. When he leaves this brush, the Garg is able to “lose” the player and hence return to his actbusy routine.
This gives me two options I think.
The quick and easy one is to extend it to the entire courtyard. It makes sense that the Garg can see you the whole time. This doesn’t seem unreasonable to me - it’s a small courtyard, even a child could keep track of where someone is in that sort of area.
The second is more complex but potentially better, and I will attempt it first. Add a series of info_node_hints along the edge of the drops into the water, which only activate when the player drops down, with their own ai_goal_actbusy routine, which makes the Garg patrol along them and occasionally roar. They deactivate and the Garg is ordered to attack the player once he leaves the water.
Another problem I have identified with this scene is the pipes running along the ground, all over the place. Sure, they look GREAT. But the Garg can’t jump over them. I’ll first try to see if I can use hints to make the Garg jump over them, but it probably won’t work. So the only other alternative is to remove them.
Their entity setup is great in the sense that it’s very simple, and it’s easy to muck around with and potentially fix. It’s horrible, in that it was broken. I wonder why this scene was like that. It doesn’t seem…too horrible to fix to me, I don’t understand why dev mappers far more skilled than I didn’t do so on their own. Anyone know why? This is in no way disrespectful to the mappers, I’m sure there’s a valid reason. It does baffle me somewhat.
sense the hecu are in the same area as the garg chaise why not put soldiers near some of the other vehicles, they would add to a sense of I need to get out of here as well as look cool when geting gibed by the vehicles as they get knocked to the side by the garg… ok realized how dumb of an idea that was once I re read it.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
