Hey TextFAMGUY1 imagine that many people will make that question, like anxious children, but I really have a doubt. After you finish Surface Tension, you want to mess around with something in On a Rail?
The way I see it there are 3 failure conditions for the furnace, all of which can be programmed in comfortably using logic_case.
- The valves are still turned on while the fire’s on, hence making the fire still burn.
- The doors to the furnace are not closed.
- There is no satchel in the furnace.
- All 3 valves are not turned fully on.
Pretty easy to do programming wise. As to how to make the satchel automatically explode I don’t really know if that’s possible. If it is, I will do it.
I’m probably going to put a sign above furnace saying “Caution: Do not allow excess gas to build up inside furnace. Risk of explosion.” I think that works okay.
Already touched on this - the player has to close the doors or the fire just starts back up again.
Not bayd, mayng. I was thinking of expanding the upstairs area anyway, so it’s probably something I’ll do eventually.
Patience my friend. If you truly are waiting for me to finish my maps before your next playthrough, you’ll be waiting a while. I wouldn’t, if I were you (though, incidentally, I’m saving my next playthrough till when I finish my maps too, the difference being I can wait!) Them telling me how to polish my maps is helping me. I don’t want them to stop. As a heavy perfectionist map wise, it takes me years to finish one CS map. My first completed map went through literally 50 playtested iterations or more. If they weren’t suggesting improvements and ways to change the map, I’d have to come up with them myself. Which means it’d take longer. More people working on the job - even if they’re just giving me ideas, still gets it done quicker. So I say - bring on your criticisms and suggestions, as long as they’ve constructive!
As for when my maps are going to be finished? No idea. I’m hoping for an alpha release within the next 2 weeks but these things are very tenuous and I hope nobody holds me to this. My life has become busy - university has started for reals, and though I have been missing lectures and classes to make maps, because I love it and want to do a good job, I can’t afford to do it anymore.
I haven’t started C2A5I. I’m going away for the weekend. I will work on it tomorrow evening and Monday. Then I will finish up the other 2 maps to a standard I feel is acceptable (read: GREAT) for the alpha release, which will be to selected testers only. Any timeframe beyond that, I have no idea. It’ll be a while, that’s all I can say.
I’ve addressed this before but it’s a long thread - maybe I’ll post an FAQ in the OP or something. I don’t know. There are other parts of ST I also want to change. I started on this project because I strongly felt the omission of the chapters from ST STRONGLY harmed the narrative of the HECU pulling out because they were getting owned by the aliens. The chapters from OaR which are missing signify a build up to that, but I don’t find it to be of as critical importance. So I don’t know, but the answer is - probably not, but I might.
Yes, I have that feeling too. Your work is really great
You know the reason I suggested putting explosive barrels in the furnace in the first place was because you could ignite them via a trigger and have them explode on a trigger.
You cannot do that with a satchel… But I guess If you shoot the barrels then it might explode ruining the object you need to complete the puzzle.
My suggestion is you have to ignite the fire either by grenade satchel rocket launcher or by barrel and increase the gas flow. Every time you turn a valve this causes Black smoke to billow from the seal of the hatch (env_steam transparency = 255)
The trigger has to be an invisible func_breakable to start the sequence of igniting the fire ignoring all damage unless it is like 80 or 90 probably set at the base of the furnace (floor)
Looking back at the original design in HL1 (I think you should go back to the original layout)…have some stairs or a ladder here raise the platform to be in line with the Hatch the height increase on the platform walkway does away with the ladder in the pipe and a higher jump with more consequences. Emergency release button for the hatch is over here directly opposite but cannot be used unless the pressure is at maximum (valves turned / fire ignited). Alarms are sounding and the button is blinking red on emergency release hatch. Pushing this blows off the hatch The end of this platform leads to a boarded up fire exit and the ladder down to the floor same as the HL1 layout. Hope you catch my drift 
Of course you have to go back down and turn off the valves to stop the fire after blowing off the hatch to be able to pass and make the long jump to the hatch (No Ladder inside as you are now jumping from a higher platform and losing the vertical in the pipe making it a straight right turn
If you make the pipe look like it’s exploded as you move to the next area (gasworks) Put some fire in this area and more pipes perhaps… Also I had a thought of the ragdoll burnt corpse skin might work well here from HL2… Have A barnacle hoisting the ragdoll burnt corpse up as you fall out the pipe to finish the sequence
Other new Ideas
Put Petrol Pumps outside the Garage where you have to use the TOW to get through to the next area these might be good cover for the HECU when shooting from the window.
Put the Hot-Rod Vehicle from HL2 episode 2 on one of the Car Platforms as a plain as day easter egg. Not Driveable mind!!!
^ I wouldn’t recommend that, copy-write and all. Expect this thing to spread on a large scale, better not to risk it.
Good point It was only a suggestion because the bonnet is off and looks like it’s in repair…
Sounds good. I look forward to seeing your end product. If by chance you can program in the satchel autodetonate, make sure it goes off only when there’s a fire in the furnace as opposed to autodetonation simply by being in the furnace.
Be careful with changing too much in ST. There’s a big difference between adding something that’s missing versus changing something created by a dev. Ultimately my goal (and I hope yours too) is to get your sections integrated into the official Steam release, as your work is just too damned good to be left as an obscure download that only a few people will play. If you start changing dev-made sections, you run the risk of offending them, which will decrease the chances that your work will be incorporated. I’d recommend adding in the tentacle section once you’re done with these chapters and call it a day…unless you want to expand OaR, which would just be icing on the cake.
Side Note
Does your c2a5f start with the garage or the .50 cal vort shootout? If it’s the latter, can you add some Xen fauna toward the end of the tunnel as in the original HL? It currently looks a bit bland.
I second this.
By Adding missing levels this is changing what devs have done…
I don’t think changing something if there is a clear improvement is harmful and done with the up most respect…
I doubt anybody here want’s to see or release something that is no good what so ever… That said, If anything it is a lot more over the top in “ST Uncut” than the original levels in HL1 weather that is a bad thing or not is a matter of opinion.
Purists may shake their head then again so far so good… I cannot help but feel the big action set pieces could do with toning down a bit… Their great but stray too far from the original maybe?
Then again not changing the other levels and giving this chapter a big climax how it is, is perhaps what the game needed at this point.
Hard to know if it will leave later levels too much in the shade or not too for big action but just will have to wait until it is available to play and in level sequence.
I have edited one map from Lambda core for the sake of one scripted sequence that has now turned into 2 sequences but I did not do it because I don’t like the level it’s because I really like the game and HL1 and wanted to restore the scene to it’s original location because it has more impact that way and it’s being done with respect for the game BMS and the original HL1 not to destroy it, theres a big difference and I could never hope to map as well as the developers do right now, having myself not enough experience at all, but If I think I can make an improvement I will certainly try for everyones benefit. I also have no plans to change anything else in the level just to accomodate the restoration of an iconic scene.
Another 2 Levels In lambda core I plan to add one entity and the same entity to both maps… It will get used a lot and will need to be triggered a lot of times but all for only adding one entity that will make an improvement I think it is worth trying out… If it’s no good I won’t put up a download saying improvement or tweaked map. Subtle differences are somtimes more felt than major ones
If you have ever watched a fan edit movie then you will get the idea… To spend hours doing work on something to try to make an improvement is far from disrespectfull.
I hope alot of members make different things like new weapons, maps, models, improvements, … (maybe gonna ask this members to join the team?!)
Then the devs gonna choose which stuff they want in their game, that’s the game we gonna play again
Guys, I hate to mini-mod, but you’re getting off topic with the track of thought. Something I’m guilty of with ODB a few pages back, please, don’t repeat my mistake. If you want to discuss something not pertaining to the work he’s doing, you should carry it on in PMs.
Perhaps for the furnace Puzzle, you Could have a few scattered Fire Extinguishers laying around the Area.
Predictably, the player throws them in, they explode, covering the interior of the furnace with white mush, and extinguishing the fire.
Maybe the next area you remake after satchel pipe is the single tentacle on the desert? Perhaps it would be younger form of a tentacle, weaker-hitting and smaller.
Some suggestions for C2A5I
-
Acoustically orient the garg to the players with a large roar. If possible have the garg raise up its arms in anger while the marines are shooting at him. Currently the garg just kind of stands there until the player sees him, which is a little lame.
-
Have the garg kill the two marines with a physical method, like smashing them with a car. We’ve already seen enough of “roast the marine” in Power Up (which is the only thing it can do) and killing the soldiers with a prop would demonstrate that the garg is more intelligent than it seems and is environmentally aware.
-
It should be possible to access the gate leading to Forget about Freeman using a direct artillery strike to either side of the wall guarding it. In it’s current incarnation, the artillery strike to the radar tower is rather contrived and needlessly sacrifices realism (why the hell wouldn’t artillery strikes destroy the wall?) and logical gameplay. Many players’ first instinct is to take down the wall, which leaves this as nothing more than an example of “hey, look at the hard work I put in scripting the tower to fall.” You can keep this in game as a secondary method, one that rewards players…for their counter-intuition.
-
If possible fix the damn mortar screen. A lot of players, myself included, have been getting glitches whereby the mouse cursor sporadically flashes in place of the red dot. The movement of the dot is really jerky and makes the mortar screen almost unusable, especially with the Garg shaking the tower.
If you change some parts of existing maps now, might not there be problems in the future once the bm devs update their game?
My only request for this is that you somehow find a way to keep the whole fall-through-a-vent proceeded by holy-shit-a-garg. I won’t exactly be disappointed if it’s not, but that was still an awesome experience of it’s own.
He’s got something equally awe-inspiring with the garg in mind Crypt. I’d have to sift through the posts to find it, but basically, he’s going to make it entrance similar to the 2rd Antlion Guard from HL2 in Nova Prospekt (one with the squad of combine shooting at it) then it does the usual throw a few SUVs around before turning on you.
Great job! You just increased the tension in the surface! The manta ray destroying HECU vehicles really makes the player think the HECU is losing which will make them to pull out. When I bet when I play in this maps, I will be seeing epic battles of humans and aliens.
EDIT: Really brings the nostalgia to me and how about the tentacle in Surface Tension?
I have today free after one helluva weekend, so I have the whole of the day to work on C2A5I, and then when I’m done on that work on refinements to the rest of my maps.
I don’t foresee the basics taking too long. I’m simply going to change the area for the Garg encounter and leave everything else pretty much the same (though I’m hoping to fix the Garg’s insatiable desire to shake that tower). It really shouldn’t take TOO long.
I’ll address what’s been said in my absence.
No offense man, but you seem to be a bit of a contrarian. Remember, I am the one building this map, I’m afraid I simply can’t find it in myself to follow all of your plans, because I don’t agree with lots of them. It’s nothing personal. I already said I have pretty much decided on what I’m going to do here, posting ideas for very large overhauls is a little unhelpful I’m afraid. Your ideas are good but I don’t agree with them - if you’d really like to see them in game, I’m not stopping you from mapping them yourself! Heck, if the map turned out really well I’d certainly eat my own words.
Onto the little debate about changing maps vs adding maps, which you also briefly touched on.
I don’t see a problem. It’s a mod. A remake of someone else’s game. On someone else’s engine. If they had a problem with someone else taking their artistic vision and “improving it” (read: tampering with it for the sake of being “better”) then their entire project is built on hypocritical grounds, is it not? I personally believe the devs will have no problem with my mucking around with their work at all, and as far as I know they haven’t said anything otherwise. I’ve had moderators posting in this thread with no complaints. It’s done with respect, you’ve seen how many times I’ve showered praise on them in this thread. Their maps are fantastic, far above the quality of mine. But that doesn’t mean I can’t see where a weakness is, and to my best to jury-rig a solution to it. It is done with great respect.
Ronster, I think it’s a tad unreasonable to say my action set pieces differ too strongly from the original. Most of BM’s action set pieces already differ strongly from the original. Many don’t exist now. What have I added that’s so dramatically different to the original? C2A5G - I added a Manta destroying an Osprey. That’s it really. The tank is featured differently to the original because it can’t be done like it was in HL1. The fight between the HECU and the Aliens is pretty much the same scale was is it was in HL1.
C2A5H - I added an Abrams being destroyed by a Manta. The fight between the HECU and the Aliens is still the same idea as before, I just upscaled it a bit. Does it not make sense to do that, given a new engine capable of doing bigger and better things? If purists have a serious problem with that, they’ll also have a serious problem with the rest of Black Mesa. I’m not straying from the original in any serious manner, I’ve increased its scale as Black Mesa has done with pretty much everything. If it is a serious problem for some people, they don’t have to play my maps! Or they could grab it, and tone it down themselves, I don’t have a problem with people playing with my work, just like I don’t think the devs would either.
I also seem to remember nearer the beginning of this thread you making grand suggestions about how to make my set-pieces more dramatic (zombie being run over comes to mind), but now you’re saying I should tone them down?
It might seem like I’m attacking you but I’m not. Think of it as me defending my work. ST is the climax of the conflict between the Aliens and HECU, I think having the setpieces works well. My stuff still doesn’t compare to the amazing scene in Forget About Freeman anyway with the aerial battle, so I don’t run risk of overshadowing it anyway I reckon.
Just for reference, the fabled “other parts in ST” I want to change are as follows (an outrageous list, be careful):
- Tentacle in the desert
- The alien chasing the marine across the bridge as it is destroyed by the apache
- The apache chasing you throughout C2A5B (desert tentacle map)
If this offends the devs, I will be surprised.
Not sure a fire extinguisher could put out a furnace! If I were to do this I’d still need to have the player turn off some of the gas first.
-
The Garg’s entrance will be something like this: You drop down next to an HECU barricade with an Abrams, and some soldiers. As they turn to face you (including the Abrams), a large roar erupts from a set of doors to your right. The Garg bursts through the door (cinematic physics will be attempted here), with a car and the corpses of 2 marines being burst through with him. He hits the tank, knocking it over and squashing the other marines. He then turns to face you with a loud roar. Chase begins. Seems good enough to me!
-
Addressed in 1
-
Yeah, that’s a valid complaint.
-
I can’t fix the monitor. Not possible. It’s an entity that exists in the game which the devs have coded, there’s no way to fix it from the level editor. I have problems with it too, it’s just something that those affected with will just have to bear with
As I said in 1) above, you are going to drop down into the middle of an HECU ambush. Same thing, really!
Hey Textfamguy I don’t have a problem with anything you have done… No offense meant… The point I was trying to make was that These scenes you are doing are probably the biggest action set-pieces in the game so far.
While I like them, and as I said also this might be what the game needs at this point it’s hard to know how this will make later levels feel… Will it make the feeling of a void that the player will want more action on par with this at a later point and it does not happen… That’s what I am trying to say not that what your doing is bad… i.e. how will the overall game feel after stuff on this scale is not replicated again perhaps. Forget about freeman will be last of this type I guess
And again no intention to offend you I hope you understand the point.
Perhaps I am just being a bit contrived you are right on this one…
The suggestion about the zombie being run over by the tank was to introduce something new and cut back on the Manta’s Harriers and Apaches… Just don’t want it to go too OTT
Just a thought on the gasworks the Warehouse racking by the side of the road is bothering me… Any chance to change this prop to something else it feels out of place there… Just a suggestion