Here’s to hoping, at least
Well, I think I understood him correctly. But maybe I’m misunderstanding something still, or maybe it seems that I don’t clearly understand because I’m a shitty writer.
Katana is saying that in order to understand the resolutions in HL 3 (if it’s the conclusion), that players new to the series will have to reference HL, but that the younger players would prefer to play a modern game to the original HL.
His comment is well-written, well-constructed, and most of it makes perfect sense, but the point of the comment is basically, “Valve is waiting to release HL 3 until BM is finished.”
I suspect this is not the case. And I basically thought, “If Valve thought having an updated version of HL (for those that didn’t play the original and prefer a modern game) is so important that they won’t release HL 3 until they have an updated HL, then it is an issue so important that they would develop that game themselves, rather than rely on a 3rd party which they do not control.”
I don’t think updating HL is important to Valve, and that they will use their own, already existing HL S, rather than someone else’s game as a reference for the noobs.
And while it makes perfect sense that Black Mesa will be hyped up on Greenlight or Steam regardless, Katana seemed to be implying that Black Mesa will be a surrogate for the original HL, and that Valve will point to BM as the definitive HL for those players who haven’t played the original and prefer a modern game. In other words, Black Mesa becomes THE Half-Life for a generation of players.
I think that’s possible. I think that BM will become THE HL for a lot of younger players who buy HL 3. ( I really hate to say that about a game that I haven’t played, that hasn’t been released, and apparently doesn’t even work.) But that’s if the releases are contemporary and Valve ties HL 3 to BM and hypes it on Greenlight or Steam. There are a lot of “ifs” to this scenario where BM becomes HL to a generation of gamers.
If they can get all those ducks in a row, then yeah, their game becomes Half-Life for a lot of people. Is that because Valve wants their flagship game to be replaced by a game that they’ve never played and was made by someone else? No, if it happens, it will be a matter of fortuitous timing. I suspect Valve will point to and bundle their own game, the already existing HL S, as the reference for noobs, rather than someone else’s game.
Is Valve holding up HL 3 until BM is released so that 12 YOs can have a point of reference without having to get their eyes all stinky and sore from that icky old Half-Life? I suspect this is not the reason HL 3 has not yet been released.
While I highly suspect that Valve will not use BM as replacement for HL, I do think it’s possible that Valve could buy the game to throw into a HL 3 bundle as a fun freebie.
Greenlight seems to be aimed more at indie developers and not mod developers. From what I’ve seen, to get a game on Steam through Greenlight, you do your normal submission thing (adding photos, videos, summery, etc.) then people vote on your game. If your game gets accepted, I would imagine Valve would be in contact with you about pricing and such. After that, your Steam account gets access to Steam workbench where you can set up your .gcf files and package it for release.
While I still remain positive that Valve will put Black Mesa on Steam, (if Synergy is, then a remake of their most beloved franchise ought to be to) I’m still not entirely sure if Greenlight would be the right approach. Especially since Half-Life is Valve’s IP. Heck, even the Lambda logo is copyrighted. Then again, it wouldn’t seem like Valve to go after a bunch of Half-Life fans. Gabe Newell himself has even said that “a Half-Life remake by the community is not only possible, but inevitable.” I’m sure there’s even a few Valve employees who come on the website every once and awhile just like we all do.
Long story short, Greenlight doesn’t seem like the right avenue to publish a mod. And Given Valve’s love for their community and support of the project, I’m sure a simple email to them would get it on Steam.
Has it already been confirmed officially that Greenlight is only for commercial games?
I wouldn’t say story-wise, but everything else I agree.
You have to speculate on the information they’ve already given us- and based on that, I’d say it seems commercially oriented.
Attempt to ask Valve about it and they just link you to the news release
in either way - i wouldn’t be surprised if steam gave bm the ok. theres always been hype around this mod. that much time and effort has gone into that valve wont ignore it. they arnt making money and it only gets valve more thumbs up.
it costs them money though
What do you mean?
It wouldn’t cost them more to add BM than to add another project on Greenlight.
I don’t think they’d distribute a free game & there’s no way they could distribute their fair share to each of the developers. Greenlight is for indie games that need more sales to thrive & steam certainly helps with that, but adding Black Mesa to steam wouldn’t really help anyone.
Valve has been putting more and more work in the hands of their fans, rather than themselves. Server policing (VAC does not immediate-ban players; it relies on administrators), map creation (many of the new maps are unofficially-made), Portal 2 map creation, now creating movies from their games. Plus there’s Greenlight itself, TF2 weapon and item creation, plus workshops for other games like Skyrim.
Something people are forgetting, though, is that Greenlight seems to be the voting process by which the 42,000,000 games that come across Valve’s desk every day get greenlit. It’s a way for tiny sparks to shine through in a crowd. Black Mesa is far more well-known than many of the commercial projects submitted to them, so I don’t think Greenlight even enters into it; Valve can just sit down to a meeting and decide for themselves: “Hey guys, should we put Black Mesa on Steam?” So any reference to whether Greenlight is for commercial/indie developments is irrelevant.
bur - putting advertisements on websites costs companies money, but it drums up media attention to particular franchises and IPs, which tends to be vital towards sales. People Can Fly made an entire (dumb/silly) free game making fun of COD to advertise Bulletstorm.
In fact, Dias - Valve has distributed PLENTY of free games, many with almost no gain to them. Alien Swarm, Trackmania Nations Forever, America’s Army 3, Moonbase Alpha…thread goes on here
Katana - I understand your thinking here, but I think there’s a difference between added value through user-created content, which is what your laundry list is mostly describing, and the acquisition of a 3rd party game… And while it’s true that Valve encourages and provides tools for user-created content, that doesn’t support the the idea that Valve will use your game in the way you’ve envisioned, or that Valve is holding up HL3 for BM’s release.
However, I wouldn’t deny the possibility that Valve may play the game and think -
“This is the game we would have made if we had remade HL.”
or
“This is something close to the game we would have made if we would have remade HL.”
or
“Wow, this is better than the game we imagined as a remake of HL.”
- and then may choose to use your game in the way that you have envisioned.
That is entirely possible. I don’t know how likely that is, but it’s definitely a possibility. However, if it’s true that BM has had minimal contact with Valve regarding your game, and that Valve has not played your game, then that probability is completely unknown, even by Valve.
But regardless of whether Valve chooses to use your game or not (after they’ve played it), I suspect that future choice isn’t effecting the development cycle or release of HL 3. I don’t think that having an updated HL is so important that they would delay the release of HL 3. And I don’t think that they would make such major decisions based on such imperfect information, or, in fact, unknown information. They wouldn’t allow an unknown 3rd party to control them, or place their business at the mercy of an unknown 3rd party over which they had no control or oversight. Valve is really, REALLY smart, and that’s not a smart thing.
I can tell that you’re getting really excited about the possibilities for the future of your game, and I really do hope these things work out for the best for both you and your game.
It’s possible that things could work out as you’ve imagined them, and that would be really cool - I’d like to see that happen for you. I just hope that you realize that there are a lot of uncertainties regarding your idea of the game’s future. And while I love that you’re getting excited about it, I’d hate for you to believe so hard that all this is going to play out as you think, and then be disappointed when it doesn’t work out exactly as you had hoped - especially since there really shouldn’t being any bad feelings or disappointment after you release this game.
I suspect that a lot of good things will happen for you and the game, and maybe you should take those things as they come, without expectation - and enjoy what happens instead of what doesn’t happen.
I say all this assuming that what we’ve been told about Valve having minimal contact with BM and Valve not playing the game is factual, but maybe that’s changed and you have some inside information, Katana? ahahahaha
Really though, I’m a little surprised that we haven’t already seen headlines like “Black Mesa Dev Says Valve Holding Up Half Life 3 Release” and “Dev Says Black Mesa to Replace Half Life in Valve Catalog” on the gaming news sites - they love shit like this.
Oh right, I forgot about Alien Swarm.(not exactly a hard thing to do)
Except for that, every other time I’ve seen a free game on steam before it’s always had some kind of micropayment system.
Except every one of the games he listed
Every one that wasn’t listed under “Free 2 Play games / micropayment model:” that is.
I think your main misconception here is what I’m thinking about “using” Black Mesa. Other than releasing it on Steam, it wouldn’t involve much.
By proxy example, let’s say a town in Germany has declared Duke Nukem Day, and has a big festival attesting to the Duke’s greatness. Gearbox would have to know that with the media attention on that event, around then would be a good time to release Duke Nukem Forever since people are all talking about it. Just like book publishers might decide that the release of Fellowship of the Ring in theatres is a good time to re-release a new edition of the book. This doesn’t necessarily mark an official partnership in the headlines, it’s just marketers being opportunistic.
And the same can apply to Episode 3’s story. They’re certainly never going to write “Okay, you’re not gonna get any of this if you didn’t play Half-Life 1, so go play this official unofficial recreation.” However, they know any backwards-references in the game would feel a little better if they referenced things people had actually played, and that people are more likely to have played those segments if they have free access to it.
It’s partially excitement over Black Mesa, but it’s partially just a theory that seemed to make sense to me. I am not expecting any mail from Valve over it, and even if Episode 3 comes out within a month of Black Mesa, we may never know the real reasoning. And once again, this theory has nothing to do with me being a developer; I assure you I would be too scared to post it if it were based on inside knowledge of E-mails to/from Valve.
You’re talking about cross-promotion. It is used sometimes in interactive entertainment. You’ll see crappy companion games released as tie-ins to blockbuster films. Those deals are planned from the start of the project as well as those films’ cross-promotions with toys and fast food restaurants.
I don’t think Valve would hold up HL 3 for months to cross-promote it with the Gordon Freeman Festival in Peoria, Illinois, although I suspect they would hold it up for a month or so to get a November/December rather than an August/September release - there’s no better cross-promotion partner than baby Jesus.
Cross-promotion is about expanding markets for both parties. The film producers of a Hulk film get marketing into the gaming demographic and the game studio gets marketing into the film/comic demographic.
But Valve doesn’t get anything from a cross-promotion with BM. I suspect that close to 100% of the people that are following your game now are already familiar with Valve and HL3 /HL2Ep3. They’ll play HL3 the day of release. There’s no financial or marketing reason for them to cross-promote with BM.
I do suspect Valve will promote BM when it’s released, regardless of when HL3 is released - not because they need to promote HL3, but because BM is a remake of Half-Life - it’s of interest to them and to fans of their games.
If I were you, I would be horrified at the possibility of BM and HL3 being released too close together or simultaneously. If you ship BM at some time in advance of a HL3 announcement, then it will be a big event with a lot of coverage from gaming sites and a lot of chatter on gaming boards, etc. A lot of people will read about it, talk about it, and play it. And after we’ve played it, there will be more coverage on gaming sites, more talk on the boards - reviews, analyses, praise, criticism, comparison, etc. Black Mesa will be a big deal. (… says I, having not played it or seen any gameplay).
If you ship after HL3 is announced, all of that gets truncated and diluted. People are going to write about and talk about HL3, and Valve will be in promotion and marketing mode, so there will be new HL3 shit every other day until it’s released.
If you ship just before, at the same time, or shortly after the release of HL3, it will be like premiering your sit-com pilot during the Super Bowl.
E-mails? What e-mails? I didn’t mention any e-mails.
I’m going to go ahead and interpret that as a slip. So, you’ve been talking to Valve, then? Exciting, do tell.
“Black Mesa in Talks with Valve According to Dev”
It would be a slip if it weren’t so blatant.
Some people just can’t keep a secret.
Alright, by now you have selectively interpreted enough of my posts that I can only hope the gaming sites come back to the thread, see your posts, read my post correctly, and say “Wow, well he just wasted our time.”
Re-read it. Carefully. I’m done posting in this thread.