Security guards

[Lord_Grievous]

@The Javid

Yeah they are not considering blue shift cannon. One reason might be that if it was cannon, you would have seen barney without vest and helmet knocking on the door in the original HL. Also Op4 is not considered cannon because then you should be able to turn around and see shepard open the door right before you run and jump in the portal to Xen.

Well, that has nothing to do with the canonicity of Op4/BS, since Opposing Force and Blue Shift were made after Half-Life. They could hardly have recalled all HL1 games just so they could put Barney without his vest and helmet and Shepard in!

They were retconned in, just like how Eli, Kleiner and Magnusson were retconned in after HL2 was released. VALVe didn’t know at the time who any of these characters were, after HL2 was released they simply said, this black guy is Eli, that white guy is Kleiner and the casserole belonged to Magnusson.

If you don’t want to accept anything that wasn’t in the original HL1 as canon, then you can’t accept Alyx or ELi or Kleiner or Magnusson as canon either.

[Angdraug]

You can’t force us to accept BS/OP4 as canon, because we know, that Valve doesn’t think of them as canon either.

[awsgames]

@Lord Grievous

Well, that has nothing to do with the canonicity of Op4/BS, since Opposing Force and Blue Shift were made after Half-Life. They could hardly have recalled all HL1 games just so they could put Barney without his vest and helmet and Shepard in!

They were retconned in, just like how Eli, Kleiner and Magnusson were retconned in after HL2 was released. VALVe didn’t know at the time who any of these characters were, after HL2 was released they simply said, this black guy is Eli, that white guy is Kleiner and the casserole belonged to Magnusson.

If you don’t want to accept anything that wasn’t in the original HL1 as canon, then you can’t accept Alyx or ELi or Kleiner or Magnusson as canon either.

But Shephard wasn’t in the first Half-Life.
That’s the difference between him and the rest of them. A security guard was where Barney was, some scientists were where ELi, Kliener, and Magnussen are, but there’s no soldier where Shephard would have been.

[Lord_Grievous]

I’m not forcing anyone, and VALVe have neither confirmed nor denied the canonicity of the expansions. They’ve already used certain elements from the expansions in HL2.

Again, they were written by Marc Laidlaw and under the auspices of VALVe, so it’s not like Gearbox just made a game on their own, put Half-Life on the box without VALVe’s consent or cooperation.

If someone doesn’t want to accept certain facts from the expansions as official then so be it, I’m just saying that just because they weren’t developed by VALVe it doesn’t mean that they’re some bootleg ripoff.

EDIT:

But Shephard wasn’t in the first Half-Life.
That’s the difference between him and the rest of them. A security guard was where Barney was, some scientists were where ELi, Kliener, and Magnussen are, but there’s no soldier where Shephard would have been.

That’s because his character hadn’t yet been developed, just like with Eli and Kleiner. Only difference is, it was quite easy for them to find a black and white scientist to call Eli and Kleiner. If Op4/BS were not just written but also developed by VALVe, nobody would question their canonicity!

[Angdraug]

@Marc laidlaw

It was a deliberate decision to have gearbox never call him barney in blue shift, only calhoun. Raising the bar is not a game, so material is presented differently there; manifestations differ in every medium. Gearbox took our barney and did their own best version, but i’m not sure that barney is the same barney i’m picturing when i picture valve’s barney. In the time bs was created, there were many barneys. Only gradually have the redundant creature and character types slowly settled into iconic individuals…it’s an ongoing process. Gearbox did what was right for their games. Even though they had feedback and guidance from us, they didn’t always listen to it, and they steered by their own lights, etc., etc. I wasn’t very close to the creation of the expansion packs, and much more concerned with how to move the story forward and open up the universe; so i only take the games created by valve into consideration when i am working on the story…there are more than enough potential contradictions in our own designs without me worrying about contradictions in the inventions of other developers who were not part of our initial creative meetings. I know this is confusing to fans; it’s partly a byproduct of the way expansion packs were created, the way they were packaged and published, and also i was very new to this whole concept at the time. It never occurred to me that large chunks of the story would be taken out of our hands, changes made beyond our control, and then have the stuff handed back with some odd unexpected kinks in it. So try not to worry about it, and simply do my best with material directly in my control. However, as to your last question, there was pressure on us to set half-life 2 at black mesa, which a lot of us felt would be creative death; it was important to break new ground. Nuking black mesa was a good way to ensure that we had a way to avoid setting half-life 2 there. You might say i gave the g-man his orders. The whole issue of canon is something the fans came up with. I guess you will be able to identify as canon those story elements we continue to build on and develop and mention repeatedly as the story progresses. Others might fall by the wayside once they’ve served their purpose. Couldn’t you say the same of us all?
Marc laidlaw

[Lord_Grievous]

I stand corrected.

[awsgames]

Fucking owned.

[Lord_Grievous]

While it does shine a different light on the situation, that’s not what most people say when discussing the canonicity of the expansions. Most simply point to the fact that they were developed by Gearbox and not VALVe as the sole reason why they’re not official. And if it weren’t for the above quote, those arguments aren’t definitive.

But anyway, if Marc Laidlaw says so then so be it

[Angdraug]

In Marc we trust.

[Lord_Grievous]

Amen :freeman:

[Nintyuk]

[raw_bean]

@Lord Grievous

While it does shine a different light on the situation, that’s not what most people say when discussing the canonicity of the expansions. Most simply point to the fact that they were developed by Gearbox and not VALVe as the sole reason why they’re not official. And if it weren’t for the above quote, those arguments aren’t definitive.

But anyway, if Marc Laidlaw says so then so be it

Actually that quote gets duly trotted out in every significant canon debate I’ve seen over the years, sometimes by me. What bothers me is when people still try to argue the opposite after having read it.

[DansonDelta40]

Hey, it’s the same with the ten commandments and the Holy Catholic Church.

God: “Thou shalt not kill”
Cleric: “Aw, come on - killing can’t be that bad if we do it in God’s name!”
God: “Thou shalt not steal!”
Crusader: “Looting dead infidels is not exactly stealing!”

:fffuuu:

[The_Javid]

@DansonDelta40

Hey, it’s the same with the ten commandments and the Holy Catholic Church.

God: “Thou shalt not kill”
Cleric: “Aw, come on - killing can’t be that bad if we do it in God’s name!”
God: “Thou shalt not steal!”
Crusader: “Looting dead infidels is not exactly stealing!”

:fffuuu:

I don’t know David killed goliath in Gods name and then went on to wipe out entire races of people in Gods name and for the people of Israel. God made him a king and he is spoken of very highly in the bible. However I don’t think God was pleased with the crusades.

[Sgt_Nix]

@geekofalltrades

…

Yes?

@DansonDelta40

Magnusson will also not be the one with the microwave casserole, so we can assume that the developers will not be taking all the Half Life games into consideration and rather make a stand alone product.

…I may just be confused here but… he IS actually the one with the microwave… isnt he? I thought I remembered a point in time where he actually says it…

@raw_bean

Actually that quote gets duly trotted out in every significant canon debate I’ve seen over the years, sometimes by me. What bothers me is when people still try to argue the opposite after having read it.

The end of that however still states that canon, in the matter we keep referring it too, is based from the fans. And to considered the things repeated as true canon. So basically anything else can still be considered, so long as the contradictions are also laid out in front for all to see and take into account.

However, that comment (one I havent seen before) does speak volumes. I had always wondered what VALVe had said about Gearbox’s version. Now I know.
Personally, I will still considered all story plots revealed, both by GB and VALVe, when speaking about the story as a whole. Its hard not to, with so many lateral comparisons.

[King_Max]

Will security guards be able to climb over rubble? It bothered me that you’d have a guy and you jump over some rubble and be just stands there like he has an IQ of 2.

[Sgt_Nix]

@King Max

Will security guards be able to climb over rubble? It bothered me that you’d have a guy and you jump over some rubble and be just stands there like he has an IQ of 2.

I always hated it when they just stopped dead center of a hallway.
You run up, re-poke them, and they flip the fuck out saying they arent going any further.

When two saves ago they were chasing you down that same hallway with no problems.

[Lord_Grievous]

@Sgt_Nix

I always hated it when they just stopped dead center of a hallway.
You run up, re-poke them, and they flip the fuck out saying they arent going any further.

When two saves ago they were chasing you down that same hallway with no problems.

Be carefull what you wish for

The NPCs from BMS will probably inherit their AI from the HL2 rebels, meaning they’ll stick to you like flies to shite…even in cramped corridors.

One advantage to this is that you can kill friendlies this time if they get in your way.

[Lolipopman]

[King_Max]

they need crazy security guards in completely alien infested areas were they’ll shoot at anything that moves and they could be all dirty and bloody.