Radiator Mod.

[Ry_amp_955_n]

@Campaignjunkie

I usually don’t post in threads about Radiator because I firmly believe that it doesn’t matter what I think… but seeing as BMS used to be my home turf, I feel compelled to “grace you with my presence.”

to the haters: It’s okay. But just keep in mind that there’s a reason why you can leave the clearing in Polaris or go through the exit door in HwC, at almost any time – if you don’t like it, leave. The exit is always there.

Grey Acumen: I find straightforward books, movies, and games to be boring. Yes, obscurity does not equate to subtlety, but at the same time I’d rather err on the side of David Lynch than Dan Brown.

re: gender neutral name – No. It’s about two gay dudes. I’m sorry it confuses and upsets you. I’m still not sure why this is a flaw.

re: “losing” being too easy to be rewarding – this is where I think you and the reviewer at Destructoid don’t quite understand what’s happening here:

1. You’re imposing your own values of what a “healthy relationship should be” – do you read “Pride and Prejudice” and condemn 19th century English women for not going out to get a job?

Have you ever been in a relationship and wondered whether honesty is really the best policy? Why do you think so much infidelity goes on in the world, if the ethics are really so clear-cut? It’s not as obvious as it seems.

2. Here’s how I always thought of it: the therapist praises James for repressing a memory because that’s when James bites his tongue and gives the appearance of progress

3. Much like the “leap” at the end of Polaris, it’s up to the player to make this other “leap,” that they might as well just break boxes instead of bothering with the farce that is therapy (or at least James thinks it’s a farce)… and if they never make that leap, that’s fine, because that’s also a valid world view.

The boxes ramp fairly evenly in difficulty (though L3 is harder to provoke a crisis, that the player will inevitably break a few and get a bit frustrated) and at the end you get a fairly rewarding feeling when you realize you have to walk on the spotlight scaffold in order to get the last box repressed (there’s probably other solutions, but that’s the one I intended)

The problem is probably that I don’t hold your hand. You have to realize all the strategies yourself by interacting with the system: to move boxes out of the way beforehand, to use the blue barrels to prop yourself up, etc.

Anyway, I mod because I like modding. It’s not to please anyone.

Though it does entertain me when people get agitated.

I love Radiator. I hope campaignjunkie gets to work on the 3rd section of the mod. I’m eager to see what trippy storyline and bizarre mechanics he uses next.

[_amp_955_dam]

I still haven’t finished the second part.

The third parts preview is up though. I think.

[Grey_Acumen]

@Campaignjunkie

Grey Acumen: I find straightforward books, movies, and games to be boring. Yes, obscurity does not equate to subtlety, but at the same time I’d rather err on the side of David Lynch than Dan Brown.

Fair enough, but as I said, it’s not just obscure, it’s counter intuitive.

re: gender neutral name – No. It’s about two gay dudes. I’m sorry it confuses and upsets you. I’m still not sure why this is a flaw.

Sorry, I actually explained my point on this subject better in a post that wasn’t actually in this thread:

@Grey Acumen

Empathizing? Who said anything about that shit? I said IMMERSION; the act of being able to get INTO the role.
Gordon Freeman is a completely hollow shell. There is NOTHING to empathize WITH. The object is to be able to INSERT yourself into that role. You don’t become Gordon Freeman, HE becomes YOU. This is very important for FPS since the gameplay style thrusts you into that role automatically.
In Radiator, a very major life decision of the main character is strictly defined from the very beginning. That can be prohibitive to immersion no matter what the particular life decision is.

to sum up; The reason the “gay thing” is a flaw is because, with the first person perspective, the lifestyle choice is essentially being forced on the player. This would be roughly equivalent to if Gordon Freeman suddenly got down on one knee an proposed to Alyx in HL2:Ep3. Whether or not the player likes Alyx, that choice is being made without their control or consent.

re: “losing” being too easy to be rewarding – this is where I think you and the reviewer at Destructoid don’t quite understand what’s happening here:

1. You’re imposing your own values of what a “healthy relationship should be” – do you read “Pride and Prejudice” and condemn 19th century English women for not going out to get a job?

I’m not imposing values, I’m just recognizing them. Relationship = partnership = you face problems together, including the ones you have between each other. If you don’t do that, you aren’t working as partners, and therefor do not have a healthy relationship.

Have you ever been in a relationship and wondered whether honesty is really the best policy?

No, I haven’t. It IS the best policy. Not the easiest or without its own difficulties to overcome,(a little bit of tact and a lot of love help get through a lot of the worst) but it is the best.

Why do you think so much infidelity goes on in the world, if the ethics are really so clear-cut? It’s not as obvious as it seems.

What the hell are you talking about? There’s so much infidelity because people, in general, are pathetic, short-sighted idiots who’d rather lie in order to get an easy lay instead of looking for a relationship that actually has any foundation, who think that they can just find a relationship that “works” without any effort on their part, who think that a good healthy relationship never has any problems, who would rather avoid conflict instead of buckle down and take responsibility for addressing the problems needed to keep their relationship working, and who think that as long as they don’t get caught it doesn’t count as cheating.
Ethics ARE clear cut. It’s the people who are out of focus.

2. Here’s how I always thought of it: the therapist praises James for repressing a memory because that’s when James bites his tongue and gives the appearance of progress.

In other words, she’s a quack who either knows nothing about healthy relationships, or just simply doesn’t have the skill/experience to recognize what is going on and is therefor a failure at her job. I pretty much recognized that and wouldn’t have a problem if the gameplay supported that recognition, but it doesn’t.

3. Much like the “leap” at the end of Polaris, it’s up to the player to make this other “leap,” that they might as well just break boxes instead of bothering with the farce that is therapy (or at least James thinks it’s a farce)… and if they never make that leap, that’s fine, because that’s also a valid world view.

The boxes ramp fairly evenly in difficulty (though L3 is harder to provoke a crisis, that the player will inevitably break a few and get a bit frustrated) and at the end you get a fairly rewarding feeling when you realize you have to walk on the spotlight scaffold in order to get the last box repressed (there’s probably other solutions, but that’s the one I intended)

See, you’ve been saying that it’s up to the player to decide which ending is the “good” ending, and yet you just point out that figuring out how to stack all the boxes will give you a fairly rewarding feeling. There is no such rewarding feeling for just saying “to hell with it” and smashing all the boxes. This is exactly the problem I had pointed out at the end of my main rant:

@Grey Acumen

The fundamental underlying problem is shown pretty well right here. The developer focused too much on keeping the ending reward/consequence from being “trite” and forgot one of the fundamental principles of game design is for effort of the player to be REWARDED and lack of effort or skill to be met with CONSEQUENCES. If he really wanted to show that divorce could actually be considered the “good ending” then getting that ending should have required skill and effort as well or instead.

The problem is probably that I don’t hold your hand. You have to realize all the strategies yourself by interacting with the system: to move boxes out of the way beforehand, to use the blue barrels to prop yourself up, etc.

I beat the thing both ways, so that was hardly a problem for me.

Anyway, I mod because I like modding. It’s not to please anyone.

That much was obvious.

[Tmaned]

I like this mod and hate it at the same time. The gameplay is pretty much boring (actually, the second part was sort of fun in a ‘fucking around to pass the time’ way), and you’re only in these two little spaces throughout the game. But if you look at it like it’s art, it’s fucking beautiful, especially the second part. The memories he had repressed showed a lot about his back story, such as the two about his dad having cancer, and his dad’s funeral. I thought at first that the exit was kind of stupid, but it was so drenched in symbolism that I stopped caring. The flashbacks are awesome, and it showed you that divorce was probably the best thing to go for (which was stupid gameplay-wise, as that was the easy ending), and I actually felt something when I got to the end, which isn’t usual for most games I play.

So, keep the story and art and such, then add some interesting gameplay, and you’ve got yourself one hell of a mod.

[experiment92]

@awsgames

I’m not sure if I did it right, I think I did, but when I got the the L3 box, it got stuck behind a ladder and I couldn’t continue, so I blew up a bunch of boxes and got an ending. I don’t know if its the only ending or not though.

Same with me, I couldn’t figure out how to climb the ladder and get the box to its slot.

[Ry_amp_955_n]

@Tmaned

I like this mod and hate it at the same time. The gameplay is pretty much boring (actually, the second part was sort of fun in a ‘fucking around to pass the time’ way), and you’re only in these two little spaces throughout the game. But if you look at it like it’s art, it’s fucking beautiful, especially the second part. The memories he had repressed showed a lot about his back story, such as the two about his dad having cancer, and his dad’s funeral. I thought at first that the exit was kind of stupid, but it was so drenched in symbolism that I stopped caring. The flashbacks are awesome, and it showed you that divorce was probably the best thing to go for (which was stupid gameplay-wise, as that was the easy ending), and I actually felt something when I got to the end, which isn’t usual for most games I play.

So, keep the story and art and such, then add some interesting gameplay, and you’ve got yourself one hell of a mod.

I don’t know who you are, but these words that you said are solid. I hope Campaignjunkie reads this seriously.

I couldn’t have said it better myself except i thought that gameplay was fine. It was set at its own pace depending on the player’s patience and intelligence in the first level, and depending on the player’s physical skills for jumping and deciding what to do next.

But the whole art thing… You nailed it.

It’s beautiful symbolic art.

[k3nny1550]

@Unknowncode

I doubt you’d like Dear Esther either, despite the fact that thats an amazing mod.

I played Dear Esther. It was a very different gaming experience. There was a very interesting story, but the narration needed to be a bit louder for me to get exactly what was going on. And I think I played the first part of Radiator a while back. Very impressive visually, wasn’t sure what was going on there either.

[Ibanez]

https://www.littlelostpoly.co.uk/devblog/

[Golebiowski]

Did anyone else think the trailer song was the song “Where is my mind” but in piano?

Trailer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7miYiQWLMI

Where is my mind : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EE59Ex5Px4

[Ballsopt]

it says so in the trailer…

[Golebiowski]

Smartass.

I saw the trailer on modb so there was no description so i wanted to do a quick link so i used youtube.

[k3nny1550]

@Ibanez

https://www.littlelostpoly.co.uk/devblog/

HOLY HELL. Is that the “Crysis” engine he’s using? That should be impossible on Source, the “after” shots.

[Ry_amp_955_n]

@k3nny1550

HOLY HELL. Is that the “Crysis” engine he’s using? That should be impossible on Source, the “after” shots.

That’s source, buddy. Yeah, we are all pretty impressed too.

[Golebiowski]

Jesus Christ.

[Campaignjunkie]

Tmaned + Dave, if my design sucks – and I’m not saying it doesn’t – then what alternative do you propose? How would YOU represent the awkward tension of a date or a marriage through an HL2 mod without any new game code? By its very nature it has to be symbolic, right?

Grey Acumen, you’re letting your homophobia and inexperience with relationships cloud the game design here: both ways can’t be “difficult” at the same time, because the only reason one way is “difficult” is because the other way is “easy.”

And you’re misunderstanding “player choice” to mean “the player should override the character’s world view.” I mean, that’s certainly a school of thought, but James isn’t an empty vessel – he’s a gay man with some issues who doesn’t see the importance of trying. There’s no “good” ending, if that makes it more palatable. I suppose you wanted to shoot Alyx throughout HL2, but was frustrated when the game wouldn’t reward your “play style” – even though Gordon would never do that?

I “reward” player choice in that you explore some other aspect of James’ character. You don’t decide his world view – rather, you decide what world view he should be in dialogue with.

Anyway, I’m glad, in a way – the day that my games become relevant to you will be the day that they become utterly irrelevant to me. I hope you never identify with them and I hope you always disagree with them. Because if you somehow misread the narrative as supporting your ill-conceived notion that being gay is a choice, well – that’d be awful.

As for Dear Esther – yeah it looks great. I’ll be indirectly collaborating with the original creator (Dan Pinchbeck) on a project in the near-future.

[Nosehole]

@Campaignjunkie

As for Dear Esther – yeah it looks great. I’ll be indirectly collaborating with the original creator (Dan Pinchbeck) on a project in the near-future.

Best news in this thread yet :3

[Ibanez]

Please elaborate on ‘indirectly collaborating’.

[sersoft]

I just broke every box I could get my hands on, until the story ended. Amidoinitrite?

[Deutscher_Scharfschu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4Fzj7-0vNQ&feature=channel

[Dias]

@Campaignjunkie

By its very nature it has to be symbolic, right?

I’m not quite sure if ‘symbolic’ is really the word you’re looking for / meaning to use. If that is the case, then no, no it does not have to be symbolic.