Osama Bin Laden is dead

[Someonerandm]

@bur

if any of you feel that the president of the us being assassinated under order by an iraqi (for example) state leader is unjustified you’re hypocrits

:hmph:

(I’m considering just prefacing all my posts with that)

Lets get a simple reality out of the way: Everyone does not have the same moral code, and the various moral codes conflict. Now, we can deal with this a few ways. We can use the reasonable way, and consider our own the preferable code because it is well reasoned and has good basis, while rejecting those that are founded on illogical arguments and to our minds lack of reason. There is of course a large grey area of reasonable debate, but there are definitively positions irreconsilable with our own morals. This is how our society works.

Here’s another way to view society: Everyone obeys their own morals and all actions are justified because everyone is human and moral differences should be accepted. This is anarchy. It fails utterly.

You advocate the second with that statement.

[Idi]

on the other hand if you wouldnt happily pull the trigger on merciless war criminal barack hussein obama given the chance you are objectively evil.

[Diabeetus]

ITT: Fuck established domestic and international law because it feels good.

[Idi]

thats also the system in play at the whitehouse

[OldDirtyBastard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NTBEVe2HI&feature=player_embedded#at=11

[bur]

@Someonerandm

:hmph:

(I’m considering just prefacing all my posts with that)

Lets get a simple reality out of the way: Everyone does not have the same moral code, and the various moral codes conflict. Now, we can deal with this a few ways. We can use the reasonable way, and consider our own the preferable code because it is well reasoned and has good basis, while rejecting those that are founded on illogical arguments and to our minds lack of reason. There is of course a large grey area of reasonable debate, but there are definitively positions irreconsilable with our own morals. This is how our society works.

Here’s another way to view society: Everyone obeys their own morals and all actions are justified because everyone is human and moral differences should be accepted. This is anarchy. It fails utterly.

You advocate the second with that statement.

you appear to have completely missed the point

what i meant was this:
-osama was the leader of an organization that has killed thousands of innocent people while he was the leader
-obama is the leader of a nation that has killed thousands of innocent people while he was the leader

-the killing of osama is justified for that reason according to the people i was addressing
-if the people i was addressing dont think the killing of obama is justified for the same reason, they are hypocrits

unless you meant that society’s moral code should only apply to those who do bad things to people of that society

[Winged_One]

Okay, everyone who wasn’t affected by 9/11 think Osama was a cool guy. He therefore deserves, what, a slap on the wrist? “Oh fuck man, you actually killed a bunch of people…impressive. But it’s…sorta lame? So here, we’ll like fine you or something.”

Being a New Yorker, I wanted him to suffer. You can claim he wasn’t found guilty until you’re blue in the face, but he directly took responsibility. And besides that…why WOULD you want to try prove he’s innocent? To say we fucked up? To once again claim we’re the bad guys?

And to everyone who accepts he was responsible, but shouldn’t have died…should he have orchestrated the death of thousands of innocents on 9/11? Was that okay for him to do? At least he’s not American, so it’s cool if he does it.

It seems like every time the US responds to an attack or threat, suddenly it’s bad on us, and everyone else looks for the good in the person who attacked. I just cannot see how you can’t think of his death as justified. If you are from a different country, I get that it doesn’t have much of an effect on you. But please, step into our shoes for a bit. We think his death was justified because he attacked us. You think it was murder because even though he killed thousands of innocent people…I don’t know, why don’t you think it’s justified?

BTW: There’s a difference between killing innocents as collateral damage and deliberate mass murder. We were provoked into invading the Middle East and exacting revenge, thus killing innocent people in the process. Yes, it’s rough, but we didn’t travel there with the express purpose of taking innocent life. Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda, however…

[geekofalltrades]

-Osama bin Laden was the leader of an organization whose sole purpose was to kill innocent people who happened to hot have the “correct” religious orientation that killed thousands of innocent people while he was the leader
-Obama is the leader of a fucking country which exists to be a country whose army has killed thousands of innocent people while he was the leader.

Just thought I’d polish that turd for you.

For the record, I think the people celebrating in the streets here should be pelted with tear-gas cannisters and overfilled colostomy bags.

EDIT: @ bur

[garrthbarrttinn]

@bur

you appear to have completely missed the point

what i meant was this:
-osama was the leader of an organization that has killed thousands of innocent people while he was the leader
-obama is the leader of a nation that has killed thousands of innocent people while he was the leader

-the killing of osama is justified for that reason according to the people i was addressing
-if the people i was addressing dont think the killing of obama is justified for the same reason, they are hypocrits

unless you meant that society’s moral code should only apply to those who do bad things to people of that society

Are you really saying Obama is on equal moral terms as Osama? REALLY? Come on man. I shouldn’t even have to explain why that is wrong.

@OldDirtyBastard

^someone is unaware that planned assassination =/= punishment. Just saying.

In this case, yes assassination did serve as a punishment.

[Someonerandm]

If you kill 1000 people to save 10,000, its fully justified. When you kill 1000 because they think differently from you and thus are inferior, its wrong. Any questions?

[Acristoff]

@Someonerandm

Justified killing has been a central part of human morality since the beginning of time. If you do it for the right cause, it is entirely justified if the benefits outweigh the costs. And before you bring up the horrendously stupid “but Osama killed for his beliefs” consider that justification is relative and that I will apply my beliefs to who can be killed. Deal with it.

And why is that a “stupid” point? Both parties killing each other believe it is the right thing to do, what separates obama from osama if we are to believe he had as much of a hand in coordinating his death as danielsangeo says he did.

[OldDirtyBastard]

It seems like every time the US responds to an attack or threat, suddenly it’s bad on us, and everyone else looks for the good in the person who attacked.

Ohhhhh, poor U.S., so unfaaaaaaiirrrrir.

Yet US and UN were the first to bitch when Russia was conducting operations to eliminate Dudaev in Chechnya.
And armed hippies that set buildings and oil rigs in Lybia on fire are called ‘Freeedom Fighters’ and ‘pro-democracy fighters’.

We were provoked into invading the Middle East and exacting revenge, thus killing innocent people in the process.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
So, would you kindly get your troops the fuck out now?

[bur]

i was just making the point that calling any murder (because that’s what it was) justified is wrong, no matter who the person killed is

if you’re for the death sentence, he still had a right to a trial

[OldDirtyBastard]

yeah, no use.

[Acristoff]

@Diabeetus

On top of that, the US celebrations in the street are reminiscent of Middle Eastern “death to America” celebrations. What the hell is going on?

Business as per usual my comrade.

[JeffMOD]

ITT: Politics, Morality, and ‘The Rules’

An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. - [i]

Then again, Osama did openly admit on video to planning the 9/11 attacks, which means he confessed to the murder of 3000 innocent people. There’s no jury in the world (well, except for an Al Queda one) that wouldn’t convict him of that, and he wouldn’t deny it either. So, really, while they should have captured and tried him, the SEALS did just speed up the process.

[bur]

whether or not it’s a certainty that he’d be convicted is besides the point
justice has not been served, rampant revenge has

[Winged_One]

@OldDirtyBastard

So, would you kindly get your troops the fuck out now?

Absolutely. I wanted our troops out in 2004 when it was clear we failed to get our original target. I’ve been an outspoken opponent of virtually all action in the Middle East til now simply because it had little to do with bin Laden or the “War” on Terror.

If we don’t leave now, I’ll be very disappointed. At the very least, if we stay, we should at least spend most of the time rebuilding.

But, hey, I’m American so obviously I’m all for killing those ragheads, right?

An outspoken anti-American will always be and outspoken anti-American, so I will not argue with you.

[Dead_Phil]

If the Al Quida do try to retaliate they won’t be able to do much, I mean with their plans to bomb places like airports. Airports have been amped up in sucurity to the extent that gaurds have been given automatic weapons. The Al Quida aren’t gone, and there are other terrorist groups out there but the death of Osama who was an ispiration to many to join al quida, this means the Al quida are ALOT weaker now and the dreadful war we are in, it’s days are numbered

[garrthbarrttinn]

@Acristoff

And why is that a “stupid” point? Both parties killing each other believe it is the right thing to do, what separates obama from osama if we are to believe he had as much of a hand in coordinating his death as danielsangeo says he did.

We’re right and they’re wrong, that’s the difference. Well, how can we know we are right? We can debate it and put our logic to the test. If an Al-Queda member tried to start a debate among the group over whether or not they are justified in killing the people they kill he’d be disgraced if not killed. The argument you are making is universal; “How can we be sure enough of what we believe to act decisively on it”. Clearly you do not support being unsure about everything and indecisive about everything so we must stick more or less to the process we already have; debate.

@bur

i was just making the point that calling any murder (because that’s what it was) justified is wrong, no matter who the person killed is

if you’re for the death sentence, he still had a right to a trial

Yes it would have been nice if he could have been put on trail. I know this is a slippery slope and I do not want to go more in-depth but there are times when the legal process must be skirted for good. Also, though Osama himself was unarmed, he did have armed guards that did fire on the Seals so it’s a little unfair to call this a senseless killing and an intentional avoidance of a fair trail which is what I think you are implying.