On A Rail Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

General Development Source 1
#101

This is a very good point but I would argue that using your map proposal would create FAR more problems then what it solves (rocket’s relationship to the command center). The current proposal is the lesser of 2 evils. So far this discussion has been focused solely on the rocket but you really have to look at it from the perspective of the entire map.

If you go back and play BMS C2A2B, stand in front the marine shooting at you from the .50 cal. This is EXACTLY the midway point of the two design themes of OaR. Behind you is the office complex and in front of you is Materials Transport C (not in HL). Now imagine what your proposal would do by lumping all the new maps BEFORE BMS C2A2B and C2A2C…it would go roughly like this:
Office complex -> Mat trans B -> Mat trans A -> Office complex + Mat trans C (BMS C2A2B ).

Compare it to the current proposal:
Office complex -> Office complex + Mat trans C (BMS C2A2B )-> Mat trans B -> Mat trans A.

Thematically, this choice obviously make far more sense whereas your proposal would catastrophically scramble themes…why would you have an office complex followed by materials transport followed by another office complex and another materials transport? I would argue that this problem is far worse that any rocket indiscrepancies. It would essentially scrap the new outdoor area design for HL C2A2G, forcing you to start back at SQUARE ONE. Realistically, the only way to integrate your proposal and have things make sense (w/o altering BMS maps) is to radically redesign HL C2A2F+G and possibly E as well. Half life purist or not, it’s a bit too drastic of a change don’t you think?

The logistical issues re the rocket launch are hard to explain away but the issue of the military not disabling the rocket is there irregardless of how you decide to place the maps (the topside marines still notice the rocket priming). Maybe they’re just stupid and don’t know how to disable the launch (or they thought their fellow soldiers primed the rocket). It makes more sense to think that the topside marines only got there AFTER the rocket was primed so they didn’t notice the difference. In any case, the current redesign still makes a little more sense because it explains the heavy military presence toward the end of the chapter (e.g. they noticed the priming and are coming for you).

Edit
@Text everything you said is dandy.

#102

The outdoor sections could include glimpses of the rocket pit to reinforce continuity. There is actually a fence along all the cliffs around the pit, so parts of your maps could even be directly on the other side of the fence looking down, allowing the player to see exactly where they’re going without being able to access it directly.

Here’s one example of how it looks from the other side: https://i.imgur.com/3n9BJ.png

#103

How about converting one of the inactive rail switches in the first On A Rail map into an active rail switch, as an optional side path?

#104

Yeah, your arrow scheme seems logical and makes more sense than just green “arrow” and red “x”. Your setup tells the player that there’s a possible third option.

#105

**pseudo-complexity
(sorry I found that a bit funny)

Lets be honest here; there’s absolutely nothing complex about a single closed loop (for anyone with a brain atleast).
I’m actually surprised you’re keeping any remnants of the first map at all.

Despite the change to the design, will you keep any of the exploration from the original one?
Or will everything be revealed almost immediately?
(I do like the new design though)

#106

I thought the arrows just indicated which track is active?

Arrow to the right when the train will take the right turn, arrow to the left when the train will take the left turn. Doesn’t seem like it needs to be any more complicated than that.

#107

How about, to keep some of the complexity of the original map, instead of keeping the very non-direct loop that confuses people, make two loops, the first of which is entirely skippable if the player simply switches the track, and the second of which requires moving the crane? That would allow you to include the content that would have to be cut by making the crane loop so straightforward.

#108

There is nothing complicated about a loop system, you’re right. That’s why I qualified it with “pseudo”. The loop appears as a part of a larger, more complex system, and by being trapped in that small operable part of it the player can still feel like they’re in that complex system without any of the problems that HL1’s version had. There are going to be other branching paths which I will add later that are inaccessible by the player train. There are already side room which connect the loop together, and I’ll probably end up adding train paths to them too. Which brings me onto the next point:

That worked fine for Black Mesa, where there was no rail switching. A red X always indicated a path the train could never take, and a green arrow always represented the correct way forward. Given that I’m adding a rail switching mechanic, there needs to be a way for a player to distinguish that a path is 100% inaccessible, or if it can/can’t be switched. Hence my solution. It’s hardly more complicated, it’s adding red arrows. It makes perfect sense. That way, players won’t try and switch rails for paths which they can never go down anyway.

Nah. I’m not even properly remaking the A map, just mostly the crane part of it. My B map is supposed to be mostly comprised of HL1’s B1 and C map. The A part is just the introduction.

#109

About the rail switching buttons I must be the only one that liked shooting them to change them? Yeah it didn’t make a lot of sense, but it was less annoying than having to stop the train and press a button each time. Would it be possible to make them buttons that you can press to switch, but also shoot to activate?

#110

I liked them, but they really didn’t make any sense, and wouldn’t make any sense in the context of a remake striving for immersion through believability.

Although one might argue that having to stop to find switches might break the flow of gameplay, it also provides a variety of pace and allows me to have a few interesting encounters/new rooms which the original didn’t. To make sure the player never gets lost or feels confused, wherever there are rail switch controls I’ll have them VERY clearly labelled, both from the outside and on the console. This means players who don’t care about the exploration can find and operate the controls easily without getting lost.

In other news, development went brilliantly today. The A portion of this map is getting close to being “early-stage” complete, where the basic layouts and some detailing is complete. It’s gone a lot better than I thought it would when I started. So far, the mapping is really clean and precise. The best mapping I’ve ever done, from a technical perspective. Planning ahead has helped a lot too, this layout is pretty decent. It retains the old HL1 flavour without succumbing (hopefully!) to the same flaws.

This brings me onto a minor design issue which I figured I could discuss with you. The crane scene in HL1 worked so that once the crane was moved, the player moved onto a turntable elevator with their tram - thus making it so the player CANNOT progress without the tram (and hence moving the claw). Unfortunately, I’m not so sure that would work well on my map. Because my map is a shortened version of the A map, and because it comes after Black Mesa’s A map, it opens with the player coming UP a turntable elevator. Having one so soon after seems a bit…eh to me. Would I make it go up or down? Down would put the player back on the level they came from, which might ruin sense of progress, and up would put the player at an unrealistically high level for the train system to still be underground (as they’ve gone up twice by this point).

So, assuming I’m NOT going to have a turntable elevator for the part after the crane, then what? I definitely don’t want the player to progress past that bit without the tram, as they’d effectively bypass most of the A portion of the map. What else can I do to stop them progressing past the crane on foot?

#111

I would want to make note: part of on a rail for me at least is that you are punching through lines to get through to the final objective. It doesn’t seem like this with BM, it seems more like random encounters, such as ‘you’re lost Mr. Freeman but just waddle down here and you’ll get to where you’re going. Oh some blokes with guns are there too.’

To me, puzzles and problem solving in this section, in HL, were paramount to keeping you going from the view point of these are critical areas being defended for a reason. Like taking over a US city and holding each junction. It should really be self explanatory from the players point of view; get from A to B, take B and then get X working so you can work out and get to where C is. Yes, there are posts in the level you have to overcome, and I did enjoy HECU popping up every now and again on a tram trying to stop you en route, they haven’t got a lot of guys down there and they need to hold positions for the most part.

Down on the rail everything would be sign posted, it’s a massive sprawling system. Most people working logistics down there would know where to go and how to get there, but the point is that it is a confusing network of tunnels. By way of an example my dad can tell you exactly how to get from A to B for most places (he’s a truck driver) but there are a lot of times he’ll need an A-Z to get around and pin point exactly where the places is. Although it wasn’t unreasonable for freeman to waltz in the right direction, some more emphasis should be put on ‘you’re warm, but not hot’, in the right area but not at the right point.

#112

Perhaps the block shouldn’t be the crane itself and instead be some spilled boxes? Someone had been using it right when the Resonance Cascade hit and as a result there are boxes in the way. Then the player could go up to the crane and use the crane to move the boxes out of the way. Toss in some soldiers coming after the player and you’ve got a nice sequence with the crane reminiscent of the sequence in Highway 17 where the player could drop shipping crates on people with the giant magnet.

#113

My first impression is that you really can’t do anything about this. Part of the problem comes from the fact that the rails are not electrified which gives decreased motivation for players to stay on the tram. Not really a big fan of the turntable even though it was the bridge between HL’s A and B1, since there already was one you encountered previously in BMS’s A. Perhaps you could offer a spare tram later on down the line if players ditch it. I was thinking since the second half of HL’s D will be included in your D map, you could include the tram there. If I recall correctly, the area contains a converging track element, which would allow you to maintain the fidelity of the area while bypassing this problem.

In other news, how far are you along the office complex? I’ve been mulling over it a bit and have come up w/some new design insights.

#114

I would have it go up for the sake of keeping it “true to the original” However, if you could make the second lift at the end of BM’s C2A2A go down, then you can make your lift to be the first to go up. So at the start of OaR, the lift goes down, then down again, then finally up(your lift). It would also make your loop/crane map be the lowest part of materials transport system, alowing you to make good use of the idea that xen wildlife populate the lower levels. Then to have your lift go “up” showing that the HECU populate the upper sections.

#115

I think you’re seriously underestimating how time consuming mapping is. As I said, I’m about halfway through the A segment, and the first major office complex is found 1/3 of the way into B1. I’ve been making excellent progress, don’t get me wrong, I’ve done a tonne of great work for 2 days - but I’m being realistic here, I don’t expect to reach that office complex for another 2 - 3 days. I’m a very fast mapper but I’m not a magician.

You’re also forgetting this is the first time I’m mapping for OaR. When you’re mapping for a single player game like this it takes a good week or so of daily work to acquaint yourself fully with the design principles from an architectural and tileset standpoint. In these early stages of my work, I CONSTANTLY and repeatedly reference my designs against those seen in the Black Mesa devs work, to ensure learn what textures they generally use where, what’s acceptable and what’s not, the predominant models and where they put them, etc etc. By the time discussion of ST Uncut had gone into full overdrive, I’d already gotten used to ST’s design principles and tileset. OaR’s is decidedly more complicated, in this regard.

My plan for the office complex is to stick to the layouts and designs which the BM Devs used for the offices on their B map. They are extremely solid and do the job very well. Of course I’m gonna change things up here and there but in terms of tileset and layout they are completely solid.

In terms of what to do about progression, I’m tempted to consider switching the claw for a magnetic crane, and forcing the player to move a large metal crate off the track, which blocks the pedestrian pathway too. I’ll have to look at HL2 crane’s entity setup to try and establish just how complex that’s going to be, and how feasible it is to reproduce. I’m probably going to have to change that scene somehow anyway because no claw model exists in BM, so it’s a choice between a hook or a magnetic crane anyway.

As I have no plans to edit developer maps this idea simply will not work.

#116

Why not make it a security door, instead of something blocking the way?

#117

I don’t see the difference between the claw and crane. You could use the claw to pick up the large metal crate as well…one lever to open/close, one lever to move up/down. That being said the magnetic crane might be easier to work with. Either works.

W.r.t. office complex, I was actually referring to deviations you could potentially do compared to the HL version. We can discuss later once you get there.

@Xiong…something blocking the way is more faithful to HL’s C2A2A and it’s not difficult to implement this so it’s better than a door

#118

The difference between the claw and a crane is that Black Mesa doesn’t have a claw model, but it does have a crane/hook model. I did already say that. Unless you’re willing to make one for me, I have to use the assets that I’ve already got.

And actually, a security door is a pretty good idea. There’s no reason I can’t do both a blockage and a security door. I could have an automatic security door round the corner or even by the blockage which only opens when a tram is near it, or something like that. I really don’t want to allow the player to do that section on foot - because it means they can basically bypass the entire level.

#119

You could use the door too but it doesn’t really resolve the issue…only in your sections. You could still run through most if not all of BMS B/C w/o a tram.

Edit: I think using both the blockage AND the security door is iffy…the power puzzle at the end of BMS’s A already represents a blockage (w/a security door too). Pacing wise, you’d be re-adding these elements again too soon. From a purist’s perspective, I think the claw is justifiable but there’s already enough obstructions to tram travel as it is, especially so early in chapter.

#120

Now that just plain doesn’t make any sense at all. There’s no point leaving gaping design flaws in my maps simply because they existed in the rest of BM. The ability to totally bypass a puzzle is a gaping flaw, that I’m not going to allow because I don’t want my map to be played like that.

And your point about using the security door in conjunction with the blockage doesn’t really make sense either. Either way there’s a blockage to the player’s passage being represented, so if you object to one you can’t realistically not object to the other. Having the security door doesn’t suddenly make it “a blockade element being reintroduced too soon,” that blockage element is ALREADY present in the crane. It’s ALREADY an obstruction to tram travel, on the grounds you’ve just stated, you can’t be okay with the claw but not okay with the security door. The door isn’t even the main obstacle - that’s simply to stop people from doing it on foot. It’s MUCH better with a door. I’ve already implemented it and it works nicely. I just need to make a sign now that reads something along the lines of “no pedestrian access,” so the player knows they need the tram.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.