I’d go with “newer.” If you can manage, BMS’s B would be an excellent place to transition for the lighting, the top of the silo would be a natural spot for it with out screwing stuff up too much imo.
I would like to see the B1 and B2 maps made “newer”. I think that’s why HLs OaR, I think many people dident like because it was long and all look the same from start to finish, and making the b1, b2 different just brings better flavor to the level, Also with your previous idea of moving the player through a different part of the rail system because the direct route to the launch pad is blocked off allows you to do this. Just as long as the transition from old, to new, back to old is done properly.
Either would be fine honestly as I didn’t get the feel that any parts of the track itself were supposed to be newer or older in half-life’s on a rail. You could assume that the part where you derail at the start of Apprehension is due to new track being built or that it’s simply maintenance or the H.E.C.U. blew the tracks with C4. You’re never really told for sure and what’s beyond that blocked off part is anyone’s guess.
One thing I would like to see in the B maps is more logical visual explanations for the trams and the cargo crates. It is supposed to be the material transport section after all. Where are they ultimately going and coming from, are the type of tram you’re riding on being used to tow cargo on other trams behind them etc. Since you’re adding an outside area it would be nice to see some large trucks with cargo in them next to an unloading bay to really make the whole process of them bringing in new materials and then transporting them to where they need to be clear. Maybe even add in a scripted sequence at some point with the large robot you see in Black Mesa Inbound.
Imho the dead scientists in the hallway are just perfect. looks like an ‘‘official’’ execution. looks very moody, and the scene speaks for itself… no live action needed. please don’t change it.
Another point: The ceiling still look too bare. Some airducts running there at the ceilings would be nice. since its also logical, its deep underground; airducts are needed down there.
Despite how the tunnel at the start of Apprehension may look, why would the tunnel be newer and more used if it directly connected to an old, deprecated silo that’s part of the original base (as in, much older than) Black Mesa was built on? That’s just my thought on it. Then again, how the tunnel is used might have nothing to do with it.
Still, the tunnel would probably be as old as the flooded silo from the original missle complex.
Also, about the tug train (the one you use for like 8 seconds before crashing it at the start of Apprehension)-
That train is actually supposed to be older than the freight trains used earlier on during On a Rail.
The freight trains are electric while the tug train supposedly runs on gas (though it’s never really made clear or shown so it could probably be ignored).
On top of that the BM devs took some liberties with how the trains function Black Mesa, versus how they were in Half-Life.
In Half-Life, neither train had an LCD panel on it and earlier on in Black Mesa’s development, BM’s freight train was actually the one with the LCD screen.
So there’s some inconsistencies there.
Like I said though, these are minor details that really don’t matter and while it would be a neat effect to have the age of the areas change appropriately as you go through the chapter, it’s probably an effect only some would notice.
In the end you’ll have to decide for yourself on what you want to do, but hopefully you can make a clear decision with all of the input that’s been given so far.
Keep in mind you don’t have to do anything.
If you really do want to change the lighting from the orange/red earlier on, then atleast just make it clear that you’re entering into a different section or something so the transition doesn’t seem so weird.
Like I suggested, it’s possible the tunnels were actually older, but were renovated, whilst the BM tunnels could have been build later on, but were a low priority for maintenance because they’re still holding up okay.
As for the train, the Tug tram not only has a digital speedometer, but it’s in metric, suggesting it’s at least newer than the mid 1970’s.
Or the tug tram could have just been used for hauling heavier loads than the electric ones in OaR. Rocket payloads and the like.
@jone4s: Thats the problem… We want to show the scientists get ruthlessly gunned downed as they try to escape, not show the scientists lining up to be executed. Look at all the other instances of people being executed in the facility. They are either shot at their desk, or when they were running away from the HECU. It would make no sense for them to line up against the wall, as they are not tied up, and they know that the HECU want to kill them by that point.
As your post has shown, there’s kinda some leeway here. It’s very ambiguous in Black Mesa as to whether or not the Apprehension tunnels are older/younger/more active/less active than the rest of OaR. There’s no winning side here, I don’t think. I’m erring on the side of newer simply because that’s how it was in Half-Life 1 (no real doubt about this).
As for why do newer tunnels connect to old, disused parts of the facility - that’s really not a complicated issue. As Someguy said, the tunnels may have been frequently used and thus renovated despite being older. The tunnels might still have been in frequent use while some of the areas they’re connected to (i.e. Apprehension) are not. As I’ve said before, take a look at these doors:
They look absolutely miles more modern and well maintained than anything else seen throughout OaR. If we add that to the fact that these areas were CLEARLY more modern in HL1, then I think there’s a pretty good case for the Apprehension style tunnels being newer. It could go either way, really, so as you said, it doesn’t really matter, provided I make the transition apparent and clear, which I’m planning on doing.
You’re making a lot of assumptions about how and when the executions happened. They’re in a facility wide catastrophe where communications are cut. They probably had no clue they were going to be executed - the HECU might have even been “escorting” them out to try and weasel out survivors. Make them all feel safe so they come out of hiding, then boom. They also don’t have to be tied up in order to not fight back. None of the scientists throughout the entirety of Black Mesa ever fight back against anything, aside from that 1 headcrab near the start. They’re timid and weak, supposedly. It’s perfectly reasonable to assume they’d immediately comply with a big man holding an MP5.
Good point.
I honestly look forward to your rendition of B1/2. I’m really curious on how you’ll handle the transitioning between the renovated parts and unmaintained parts of the system.
In my hypothetical mental Source 2-or-3 Half-Life reimagining, the Apprehension section of the game (renamed Hydrophobia, the chapter name Apprehension is reused for the chapter after Hydrophobia, which is an improved version of Uplink culminating in the ninja fight and knockout) is a little newer than On A Rail, but not much… but has recently (as in, within a couple of weeks of the RC) been fitted with some makeshift modern additions, with hastily-taped-up modern BMRF signs. Apparently the biology team piled up too many specimens and had to quickly convert a nearby unused area of the facility, originally used for missile launch, and then for missile storage, into an Auxiliary Bio Lab. (This explains the “did you see it?” monologue.) It would be longer than the original, with a new section where, in a Cryogenic Storage Area, Gordon finds a novel physics weapon. I’m not entirely sure what to call it - some ideas include the “Kelvin Gun”, the “Extremity Gun”, or the “Thermos Gun”. It automatically uses sources of extreme heat and cold to replenish its ammunition, and then may release extreme heat and cold with the primary and secondary fires respectively. Among other physics puzzles involving the gun, the player must cross an uninhabitably leech-infested area of water (indicated with a scripted event where a scientist slides in and is swarmed) by making a bridge out of ice. Other features I love in my mental remake of Apprehension include the Giant Crusher Room, replicated from the original in fashion similar to Black Mesa - but instead of the three pipes already being burst open when the player reaches the room, the three pipes are intact, but there is a warning sign regarding the danger of activating the generator when the pipes have had a breach. Obviously, the pipes are in poor condition, and probably have had dozens of air leaks of varying size, so when the player activates the generator, the pressure created winds up imploding and/or exploding each pipe, revealing the moving platforms the player must jump on.
And, uh, sorry for rambling in your thread, Text. :fffuuu: Carry on.
@Text: You’ve got a point. One thing I still think you should do is show that last minute realization that they were going to be executed. I explained this in my previous post, but I find it odd how they would not realize their true fate until they were actually shot. I won’t explain myself again, please refer to my other post. I would think it’d be cool.
What would you do, if you’re about to be executed?? there is NOTHING you can do against, if you are unarmed. trying to run away or doing something else is not really an option.
https://pixxel-blog.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/180111_saigon.jpg
@Jone4s: These scientists would plead for their lives, for sure. Please see my longer post to see what I mean.
You’re doing that dumb internet-badass thing, where you’re assuming (falsely, tbh) that you would personally kick each HECU’s face in instead of lining up to get shot, or at least put up a fight and go down fighting. Well, guess what?
A) No you fucking wouldn’t.
B) Even if some people would, “some people” are certainly not a majority.
C) Do you honestly not understand the concept of a military force cowing people into submission and gunning them down instead of simply killing them on sight?
D) We already have a “doesn’t-go-down-without-a-fight” character, and we already have plenty of focus on him. He’s called Gordon Freeman. (Also, every single living security guard in the game.)
So you said: ‘‘They are either shot at their desk, or when they were running away from the HECU. It would make no sense for them to line up against the wall…’’
You don’t know exactly why they lined them up in the corridor… maybe they collected them to ask them questions or maybe some hecu leader had other plans initially, then decided to execute them… god knows what happened…
and besides, it looks very dramatic… btw.: i love also the slight elevation of the hallway.
From an earlier post of mine:
This is what I want. Not a person fighting his way out, or running away. Just, pleading the HECU to be spared before being ruthlessly being gunned down by the HECU, or expressing surprise that they are going to be shot. That shows the submissive state of the scientists, and that is what I wanted to show all along. Sorry, I should have clarified.
@jone4s: I guess it could… I personally felt that it wasn’t dramatic enough, but that could be due to many other reasons. If Text likes it that way, then there isn’t much I could say that would change his mind I guess.
Please elaborate… I thought scripted sequences formed the bulk of Valve storytelling. But if I am wrong, please, enlighten me.
I’m personally more a fan of environmental storytelling in situations like these, deducing this stuff for yourself from the surroundings makes the game a lot creepier.