Makes sense to me.
Not sure how that would look like, but what about separating the cafeteria from the rest with a glass wall? That would solve the dust problem and would also reduce noise (the people in the cafeteria want to relax, right?).
Quite off-topic, but how do they get fresh air into all those underground complexes? It must really stink there if they don’t (and eventually all employees will suffocate O_o). I can’t explicitly remember any vents getting fresh air supply.
Just because YOU don’t think it’s stupid to release one version doesn’t mean it isn’t. Some people may want a longer chapter with some added content and believe that BMS OAR was just too short to be fun. Is it a crime to disagree with you? Are people not allowed to have other opinions? Try to distinguish between Objectivity and Subjectivity please.
-releasing more than 1 version is a waste of time. Why should OaR Lite just have the office complex? What if I want the mat trans section for lite? What if 2 maps are too much for me and I specifically want 1 section? That’s 6 total combinations here…all equally “valid” because people are entitled to their opinions. What if I think ST_Uncut’s H is shit and I just want the G map? There’s over 24 different packaging combinations (w/I map swap) you could do to cater to people’s opinions. How many versions really need to be packaged?
-Text’s mapping is stylistically different from the devs…one new section in BMS OaR stands out whereas two reinforces the stylistic contrast.
-When people don’t like other people’s opinions they chalk it up to “it’s just an opinion so they’re equally valid.” That is utter horseshit. There is a such a thing as a good opinion, neutral opinion, and stupid-ass opinion. This is FACT and people making opinions of the latter categories should not be entitled to do so. That being said, the map versions issue does falls more toward the middle of the spectrum.
@text on the rocket turret
actually there is something you can do, seen it done in obsidian conflict and some other mods, take the turrets and change the ammo to that of rockets. no clue if you can do this but it would be a cheap fix, take the rpg and the 50 cal remove the top of the 50 cal and replace with the rpg. then you would just need some one to modify the projectile type and fire rate… no clue if doable but have seen it done in mods before.(and hl2 dm) would look hackish but it would be temp, also I bet you could get some one to model it if you just asked.
EDIT: are my posts just out right egnored, text the tram system isn’t disused, it even states that in game, its a supply tram, the disused part was blocked from the players path early in game,(by a radioactive pool) forcing them to take the main material trams at this point.
You’re right darkone. I messed that up. There are active parts in the rail system, not only the rocket area. That actually alleviates most of my concerns.
Still, is there going to be an obvious entrance door to the offices, at least? The offices may be there, but how do the scientists get there every morning? Through the rail system? There should be a newer innaccesible door, with some signage that makes it clear that the corridor leads to a tram stop or something.
thats all thats missing is the way that they get there your right… atleast from the video I can’t see one.
@text could you put some glass between the cafeteria and the tram,(noise and dust reduction) would be cool little thing to enter that area and see it broken and shot out in many areas, also dead bodies in cafeteria needed)
While I get what you’re trying to say, it doesn’t hurt to release two versions. That whole thing about 24 map packaging combinations is just reductio ad absurdum. Obviously I’m not going to do that, but I can provide some basic choice here, nothing more nothing less. ST Uncut didn’t need that because it was much shorter anyway and it also was a far less contentious chapter. This lite vs full thing involves NO EXTRA work on my part anyway, so I fail to see what the problem is anyway. If it required me to do more work, of course I’d feel differently about it.
There are plenty of entranceway double doors dotted around the facility. Just didn’t show them on the video. I’ll probably add one or two more elsewhere too.
I’m happy then 
Are there going to be any easter egg/secret rooms? This being an underground facility full of crates, it’d be easy to hide a vent entrance leading to some hidden explosive ammo, or a secret developer message or just one of those great “scenary narratives” (you know, bodies and other things placed in a certain way telling a story.) You already did enough of that with the offices, but I’m just wondering if we are in for such a surprise.
BTW, is the video feed that shows you that the toll gates were opened still on the old LCD monitor? Shouldn’t it be in the security console panel on the wall?
You can’t please everyone. Even with the full on additions, every one is entitled to their own opinions, and there’s no need bashing them for it. Yes, they may be stupid opinions, but they’re entirely valid if enough people say it is.
Like it or not, it’s going to be what it’s going to be. What in the fuck are you arguing for?
I don’t cater to every god damn concern myself when I’m designing, that is just me, he’s just trying to get his product out to the widest audience possible. This is sound from a business prospective, and while he’s not attempting to sell it, he’s attempting to get the widest audience possible, and therefor, have a more successful product as a result. It’s some extra work, but hey, it’s fine if they’re up for it.
Some people want it the full length, some people want it at half-length. Woop dee fucking doo, it’s his choice ultimately, and while you may feel it’s a waste of time, you don’t have any say in the matter. It’s up to the designer ultimately. If you’re designing the product, you can make it the way you want.
Over the past few years there’s been games that I’ve played (or heard of) that have way too much community input. Prime examples: Diablo III & Team Fortress 2. These two butchered the core elements of the game and ended up poorly in my eyes (and in those of many veterans of those titles fan-bases). Yes, they’re good games in their own right, would I play them? No. Would someone else play them? I’m sure, there’s still a large community, it has a particular niche to fill.
Then there’s the opposite of the spectrum: Too little (at least from the public community at large). Fortress Forever is, again, a prime example. Again, good game, but it has its problems.
The Devs of Fortress Forever went the way of “ignore what they thought was stupid” and some of the gameplay elements suck nuts now. I still hate the new grenade they introduced to replace the soldier’s and they even hard-coded those elements to prevent server owners from fucking with them. (which again, pissed me off)
The point I’m making here is that it’s never going to be perfect for anyone what might be perfect for you would be shitty for me and vise-versa.
In text’s position, I would do the same. But I would release the lite version after I was done with the main one. How he does it is completely up to him, stop arguing about it in the thread, all of you. It’s irrelevant and it’s creating clutter. If you want to argue, PM eachother…
While your sentiment is spot on and I mostly agree with what you’re saying, I’ll just throw this out there one last time to make sure everyone gets it:
RELEASING A LITE VERSION REQUIRES NO EXTRA WORK ON MY PART.[/SIZE]
Just thought I’d make that clear, because it kinda renders this entire discussion moot anyway.
EDIT: Also, anyone who hasn’t, I made a huge megapost at the end of the last page (p22). Because it was at the end it may have got lost among other replies. Read it if you already haven’t. It addresses a tonne of concerns.
re: the cafeteria. I agree with the idea to add glass panes. It can seem like a sort of nice area that’s sheltered from the track by the type of glass seen very early in the game. There is no reason that this area couldn’t have a bit newer look. Just remove some of the seats to make it just a tad smaller and of course fix the lighting. You could maybe have the outside of the glass appear a bit dirtier. I think one thing that could be cool would be to give it a sort of abandoned on short notice look. Also consider putting a pizza reference in, maybe the pizza box on one of the tables. I have no real qualms with the location of the cafeteria just the aesthetics of it, which again are hard to judge anyways without playing. Take your time though and don’t slack on the uni work.
I guess u could eat snacks overthere like Pizza, Lasagna, …
Yeah, some windows made of glass would look nice, cause no one want dust in their meal…
Amazing work, Text. However, as usual. Several times i carefully watched the video today (i really Slowpoke) and i have a few suggestions. If someone has already suggested something like that, then we can assume that it is my voice in support of these views.
So…
General suggestions:
As we all know, OaR is very confusing part where the player does not cost anything to get lost. We only know that moving towards silos. Perhaps, on the walls of tunnels is to place the names of the band direction (this can also vary somewhat monotonous and boring walls). Let it even be hints of places where we can not get into. This atmospheric, I think. Also in the office complex signs on the walls to get back to the tracks. The office complex is relatively large, and there are big battles between the newcomers and the Marines, and that after having mislead the player.
Detailed suggestions:
3:01 The soldier, who was standing on the tracks and was mercilessly turned into mincemeat deserves more serious weapon than the SMG, but only in the event that it goes on and tries to shoot the oncoming cart. Do not know who can get away with trying to stop traffic with his body. Let it patrols the area and passes from one side to the other, when we go at it. Yes, it’s an ambush. Ambush in which we can crash at high speed and disrupt plans infantrymen or drive slowly and get some nasty bullets.
9:49 Who had to drop four batteries? Probably should hide them in boxes or placed in a cabinet?
12:03 This is a great idea with the place of execution of scientists! I have a suggestion to add a little personal motivation for the player. Throughout OaR we find few threatening graffiti. What if you try to combine them in a story? For example, among Marines have one particular scumbag (forgive my French, folks), which write them. The first blood inscription over the bodies of scientists can look like “You’re next, Freeman!” Then gradually as we move, we can find it and other threatening messages. Finally, at the end, we can find him writing a regular threat on the wall and do that with him, as it should be to deal with scumbags. Just a little drama for the future.
14: 36 I think people are dragged into the room, it is a bullsquid style. Such scenes are more suitable for a small room, where we should go, but when one wants. For zombies will probably be better to use the sudden opening of the door. You go and the doors swing open, and you pop up the merry company of hungry zombies.
That’s all for now. Thank you for your work. Keep well, Text!
P.S. What a terrible cough on video? I wish you a speedy recovery![/SIZE]
I suggest to either remove the cafeteria or make it smaller/redesign it and separate it from the train area with a wall/windows… !!!
it doesn’t look good at all! with all respect!
The walkthrough looks absolutely excellent overall. Just a few things I might point out:
I could see the use of somewhat darker lighting, though you are also right in that current lighting is similar to other areas of Black Mesa. It comes down to whether being more realistic or more dramatic in the lighting is preferred; you would not really be wrong going either way.
I could agree with adding another dead scientist or two to the execution scene to intensify it and dissuade any thought they might have been randomly shot down running away or something…though beyond six would probably feel overboard.
The cafeteria is okay in general to me, as it does not feel strange that someone with gaudy tastes might have been put in charge of building the cafeteria in somewhat unused section of the facility. Size might be an issue…perhaps you could also alleviate criticism of it being to close to the tracks by removing the tables, chairs and so on from the outside of the loop and leave seperate standing / sitting room to view the track?
I might leave the state of the NPCs not noticing the player under their feet as-is. It bypasses the issues with weapon fire not passing through the grating and it would not be entirely implausible NPCs would not consider to look through the floor for threats (especially with the barnacles and headcrabs coming out of vents making HECU and such worry about what’s above their heads).
The easiest thing I can think of for informing the player they should not attempt to cross the electrified section of track on foot might be to place a notice sign there warning of the state of that section and that travel is permitted only by tram. Given the general state of the tram system, it is not entirely implausible maintenance issues occurred there shortly before the resonance cascade and therefore were not fixed beforehand.
I pondered if I would want to play through this section, as unlike Surface Tension, On a Rail felt okay for its length. I can definitely say my opinion has switched to a definite yes, as your additions definitely feel worthwhile while fitting in well with the “vanilla” On a Rail. Great job, and I look forward to eventually playing through this.
I love it how it looks like a real subway station or so… but maybe change the base of the columns somehow or remove the bases… i looks kind of blocky… i’m not sure… but otherwise i love the look, its one of the best parts of your map so far
can you make destroyed floor tiles there on the ground? i think it will look better and more desolate then.
edit: maybe replace that brownish door at the left wall with a large closed gate… for storage transport.
That brownish door’s a cabinet…
lol… you’re right!
anyway, one more thinkg: the lighting in the railtunnels is not consistant with the dev’s maps. btw.: i love their lighting decision. the red-brownish lighting fits very nice and gives a rusty look to everything…
make it consistant please… its very obvious during the transition
Uh…the tunnel lighting is identical to that used by the devs…
Will make a larger post again later.
Guess my assumption turned out to be correct in the end. Tbh, I’d leave the layout the way it is atm - everything seems to be at home. However:
No I wouldn’t, if you really wish to.
See, that’s where I think you could go wrong, in trying to copy BM’s atmosphere to the letter. This is your work - you should give it your own feel. By all means make the transition between the two seamless and blend it well, but there’s no reason to think that it has to be the same throughout. In fact, I think the same lighting throughout OAR, especially since it will be a long level with your additions, could get tedious and in fact may have attributed to the feeling of repetition in the original, since every corridor looks exactly the same. Lighting, sound effects, props etc can change that.
I think BM were wrong to go with the OAR mood that they did - it looks too similar to almost every other underground level in the game - too light and too warm. I’d say this is a chance to really make the additions stand out from BM by improving it. I absolutely think that the beginning of your level is the right place for scarce lighting, flashes, creepy noises and generally unsettling atmosphere. That was what a lot of OAR was, as summed up by Sirens In The Distance - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_SJaetdnoA
A dark, claustraphobic tunnel with a leaking pipe and occasional flashes of blue sparks could make for a tense and memorable introduction.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
