How about no.
I really like the death by container idea…
But to make it so that it would be mandatory to drop the container to use it as a platform to get to an otherwise unreachable area.
This and the forklift elevator are all I can think of to make the area more dynamic and working as a train yard cargo shipping hub.
As well as previously stated having to clear tracks of debris perhaps using the heavier tram… Perhaps the heavier tram could be locked away and that is the puzzle… That you need to switch trams but getting into the bay where the heavier tram is requires dynamic changes like dropping the container and raising a forklifts prongs to be able to reach the entry point for get access to the heavier tram and smash out of the bay doors it is held in and smash through the debris on the tracks???
For example drop container and raise fork lift prongs… Get on top of container you just dropped to make the jump to the forklift prongs you raised… From the fork lift prongs you can make the jump to the otherwise unreachable Tram… Could be a wire fenced off area where the heavier tram or tram you need to switch to is held locked up from ground level access.
You can only burst out of the area using this tram. That is the best I can come up with and to add a little more this would be a better way to come off the loop rather than another switch perhaps… Having to switch trams and smash out of this lock up would be more rewarding. Perhaps losing the security Hut for another Tram / train Yard instead.
Or moving the security Hut to the opposite side of the track with the trucks and have the switch be faulty so you cannot switch the tracks over… Have the Track switch sign spark and fault like it has been sabotaged. Giving another clue that you need to switch trams other wise you are stuck on a loop… Over the road there is a tram locked up and it joins with the right track you need to get on to to come off the loop.
I actually think debris on the tracks is bad idea but tram smashing out of an area that is locked up would be better.
To have enemies continuously spawn when going through the Cave would also be a punishment for not solving the puzzle and coming off the loop… It is a bit evil but oh well there can be health with the tram you need to switch to.
To go one step further on the sabotaged switch it could also give you a nasty electric shock (electric fence shock effect for viewscreen with sparks and arcing on the console) and the HECU could come over the radio with a message and a laugh at you… This could set the tone like they are watching your every move and toying with you and waiting to ambush you around the corner where the sniper was but it had better be a full on assault here… Like they are trying to funnel you into this area to ambush you. Have a Boom gate that is also breakable with the heavy tram the same one before the start of the chapter.
Perhaps the electricty hazzard could be swapped for an explosive trap the HECU set for you or just keep the props without electric hazzard.
Please add more tripmines in B2, Text! Maybe have the sniper shoot one for warning. It’s very amazing though!
I’m really digging the idea to create a sort of ambush after attempting to switch the rails. In my eyes it could be pretty damn awesome if done correctly. The switch would be in front of a wide window, and after activating it (with a possible shock effect is not a bad idea) you could hear a soldier laugh in a radio inside the building. Then spawn a sniper across the area in front of the window, the red beam of the rifle zones in on Gordon through the window and attempts to take him out. This could also be coupled by spawning one squad of soldiers to advance on you while being pinned down by the sniper. The squad could even come out of an area or open a door leading either to the next area or something you need to advance through the area.
To me this sounds like a fantastic idea. When you first walk out into this large open space, it will justifiably feel empty or vacant, that something is off. An eerie calm before the storm (storm being this little ambush, not the rocket) would add tension and uneasiness in the player. It will give the area more action, it would add back in the sniper (which I personally think would be the perfect enemy to have here. This wide open area with lots of cover is the best way to introduce the sniper enemy), it doesn’t happen until you try to advance so it gives the player endless time to explore the awesome map. And it’d be iconic! Give it some thought!
I second this. It could give the scientist’s explanation in Apprehension more meaning.
AHAHAHAHAHA…
…wait, you’re serious?
You’ve got to literally be the only one who doesn’t like it.
Pretty much this.
@jone4s
The crane in that pic I took (from the Lambda Reactor) is more likely to move containers than simple crates, hence why it would be absurd to have it inside the transit system which can’t move containers around.
@Mr.Someguy
Yeah, I kinda like the roof over the parked trains (kinda suggested that idea to Text :3 ), but I was thinking this model more for the large containers zone outside the playable area. Also, having such crane right in front of a building would look weird, I see those for more open areas. The only place I can see fit for it is where the generators are, and then move the generators where the military camp is, though the road’s layout may not make it possible.
Exactly i was digging the earie calm… Text wants a puzzle so this kind of combines puzzle with having to switch to a different tram to get off the loop and an ambush and a bit of story…
I think the condions for snipers are perfect in this zone and i like the idea that flicking the switch wakes them up you had and gets you in hot water but if text wants rid of them so be it…
Anyway that is the best i could come up with
perhaps we need a reason also to go around the loop at least once??? probably not…
So far as this alarm noise goes this could be triggered when smashing through a boom gate? Assuming there is no way to raise it… I also thought about a runaway tram that you would have to leap from perhaps when ambushed… The trouble is at the moment the loop is obsolete… You can just walk to the area you need to get to so this also needs blocking off somehow otherwise the trains / trams are obsolete and none of it matters. after the fork needs to be blocked off from walking only rail passage should be the restriction imposed to progress.
Another cool detail to add to that scenario would be to have some soldiers talking outside the door you have to open to get outside (or a radio or something) after the last soldier inside is killed. It could be just two soldiers talking, with one saying something like “What’s going on? Report!” or “What’s happening in there!?”, and the other simply responding “Freeman.” or “It’s Freeman.” in a dark hateful manner. This would make the player think that by opening the door he’s going to get a fight, but when he opens it no one is there. The whole outside area is empty of soldiers, even though you heard them. It creates unease and dread because you know they’re there somewhere but not sure what’s going to happen. It’d be a nice addition to the scenario to have this play out.
As far as the puzzle aspect of this scenario, it has to be somehow involved with using the switch. In the video it appeared that the player could simply walk to the next area. There’s no point in bringing the tram at all. It should be noted that throwing the switch could have been the solution to the puzzle, but the ambush could cause the puzzle to change. For example: The player needs to open the gate to the broken tram area by pulling the switch. The switch is broken and useless so the gate stays closed, but the soldier ambush commences. The soldiers could exit from a different building, giving you access to another way to open the door (override, maybe a way to fix the switch or repair some wires, plug in something, maybe even explosives to use on the door or a tram big enough to ram through, meaning you cause the tram area to break like it was in the original), or simply opening an area that connects a separate way through to the broken tram behind the door.
This seems to make sense in my eyes, and by unlocking more areas it would give the player a better reason to explore a part of the map. Thoughts?
I guess I’ll be the one to say it. Spoiling the tug tram by introducing it before the part where you initially are essentially awarded with it after launching the rocket is a terrible idea and deviates too far from the original. It would take away too much from the time you’re supposed to be introduced to it.
Considering it looks more modern than the usual tram, it is incoherent to find only one, which is leading to an older part of the facility or near it (the installations from Apprehension) and not in the transit lines still in use. Also, it was first seen in Inbound in the original game, so I don’t understand what you mean by spoiling.
I disagree, you don’t drive one until Apprehension (and you get the broken one, go figure), but the Tug is already seen in B1 and Black Mesa’s C map (driven by 2 Soldiers). Besides that, it’s a bit late to bring that up. The Tug tram is a pretty integral prop to B2 due to the train yard. Besides, you still don’t get to drive them until later, so I don’t see the problem with it.
A solid day’s work but sadly not even close to finishing, which is a shame because I’d really hoped to get this shit out today. It’s all coming together nicely though. Been doing a lot of proppering today in order to get myself away from the very nasty brush limit.
Many of the scripts still aren’t working properly. The flare just doesn’t look very good because there aren’t any good effects for it, and I’m torn between leaving it in and looking mediocre or just scrapping it. I’ve scrapped the alarm scene because there’s already enough combat on the map now. There’s plenty of fighting to be had now.
Since the previous version you can now find:
-2 HECU on a tram
-1 HECU on the crane
-1 Bullsquid in a container
-7 Headcrabs scattered around the sand, burrowed in
-4 Sentry turrets, 2 guarding the 50 Cal emplacement
-4 Marines, 2 on the 50Cals in the 50 Cal bunker, the other 2 take over if they die
-1 better positioned Sniper
-3 Marines, ambushing you after pressing the rail switcher
This is definitely enough.
Scripts which I’ve added/planning on adding:
-Tram driveby
-Flare scene
-Osprey flyby
-Tram by broken turntable falls down when standing on it (VERY difficult to get right, it really doesn’t cooperate well. That’s why I hadn’t done it in the first place).
We’ll see how long this all takes me. There’s still an assortment of bugs and things to fix too, and optimization hasn’t been complete, though it’s much better than before. I’ll likely leave optimization as it is now for the alpha release, and then further sort things out for the beta.
Um, I never scrapped the TOW on B1. I’m not sure why you were under this impression. The TOW on B1 is buggy and not perfect, but it isn’t so bad it needs to be scrapped. The TOW on B2 was buggy and had to be scrapped because it had infinite range, the laser looked really shit from far away, and the Marine couldn’t aim it worth even half a damn. At least the Marine on B1 aims it in your very general direction even if he missed, the Marine on B2 would mostly just fire it into the sky for no reason. It couldn’t stay.
I think YOU’RE very ugly and wrong.
In all seriousness though, this was a bit of a silly thing to post. Prefacing it with “no offense against you,” doesn’t make it any less of a rude and, frankly, useless post. Telling me that something I worked hard on looks “ugly and wrong,” and then giving me no explanation whatsoever as to why you think that is the case is just unproductive and pointless. Additionally, the solution you suggested is useless for a number of reasons - firstly that crane model is bigger than the entire room you’re proposing I put it in, and also would clip through the room’s curves. And secondly, as Pauolo mentioned, it’s a crane for cargo containers. Seeing as most of those are bigger than OaR’s tunnels, good luck having that make sense.
This is a good idea, and I’ve implemented it, to a degree. The Sniper shooting you through the window is very neat, and a small group of Marines coming at you does add a decent amount of action to the quiet zone. The Marine laughing on the radio though is just cheesy, so I’ve left that bit out.
I think you two are both trying way too hard to address a problem which isn’t really an issue. Not needing the tram to advance throughout OaR is actually a design principle which was CLEARLY adopted by the Black Mesa devs. To the best of my memory, there are no parts of OaR by default where you can’t physically advance without a tram, nor are there any in HL1 (there are a few places in HL1 where you’ll have DIFFICULTY, but aren’t impossible).
I learned from making that mistake on A2, where I required the player to take the tram. It’s not good design. If the player somehow loses their tram or leaves it behind, they either get stuck permanently or are forced to backtrack several levels to retrieve it; so it’s bad either way.
In addition, I don’t believe that REQUIRING the player to take the loop is good design either, and given the current layout, there’s no real way to make that work properly, even if I wanted to. Forcing the player to go on a loop just seems like frustrating design to me, and it’s part of what made HL1’s A map so damn bad - and it would be even worse on B2 where the loop is so massive. If you think about it, taking the tram through is pointless anyway in the grand scheme of things, as they immediately get stuck by the broken turntable anyway. The same could be said of taking the tram through the boom gates on A2 - where it then immediately gets ditched at the start of B. There isn’t much that can be done about it.
This is also the way HL1 was designed really, I think you’re making the issue out to be worse than it is. I just did a testrun of HL1’s F map, and finished it in LITERALLY 20 seconds (I timed it), without the tram and skipping the loop entirely. You can’t do that in my version, so it’s already an improvement. It allows the player to play the map the way they want.
However, to make the ambush into a required part of the map rather than something skippable, I have closed the doors to the broken turntable, and made it so the button to open them can be found next to the rail switcher. This is an acceptable compromise, I feel.
I’m not sure whether you’re referring to the tug tram being usable or just being there decoratively. If you’re talking about it being usable, I’m not going to, nor was I ever planning on doing that. That honour is reserved for the start of Apprehension. If you’re referring to them knocking around decoratively, well it’s been like that for AGES. There are tug trams all over B1, and even on Black Mesa’s C map you see the HECU riding one. THAT isn’t a problem.
Sorry but I thought you wanted to implement a puzzle???
Most of my suggestion was based on that… no big deal but no puzzle then???
Puzzles require conditions that is why i said block off the area
No, either you’ve misunderstood me or I didn’t put it very well.
I just wanted something simple to replace the arcing lighting sparks which were eating up performance. That was it really, just something nice and easy for that small bit.
I’ve already found something for it anyway. Ysrael asking for more tripmines just gave me the idea to put a bunch of tripmines across the tracks. They serve a similar purpose to the electrical arcs while being way way way less demanding, and they’re a recurring theme anyway. It works well!
Are you referring to the arcing electricity you put in the outside loop before the cave? If so I’m not sure why tripmines would be put there at all. Not very tactically sound on the soldier’s end.
Text, to be frank, I don’t think that is the best idea. The Tripmine makes it far too easy to just shoot it to destroy it. In the end, it wouldn’t be an… interesting puzzle. I would actually want to see what you think about my idea that I posted a few pages back.
“One idea that I have is have a shiping container next to the rail line on a platform. One of the shipping container doors swing open the moment before you drive next to it. Behind the door is a zombie/vort/bullsquid who forced it open. Unless you duck in time, it knocks you off your tram. The HECU then hears this commotion and runs towards your direction… Then you have a choice, to make a hasty getaway to some cover beyond where you can fight the HECU, or run into the shipping container and fight the creature, which contains goodies, thus making this a tradeoff between good cover or more resources. I don’t know how well this idea would work in practice, but I would say it seems good in theory.”
If it’s a crap idea, just could you please tell me why? Thanks.
Oh, I’m sorry then. I must’ve misread something somewhere… I also apologise to anyone I’ve mislead :S
Also everyone above, you’re misunderstanding the purpose. He only needed an obstacle to replace the electricity, not particularly a puzzle. He settled with tripmines, which can generally be avoided the same way the electricity can be (crouching). They’re also static but hurt a lot more, and can be destroyed ahead of time.
That sounds like a neat little idea. It’d be unique certainly, but calls the question of how the enemy even got in there and the chances of it opening the door just as you go by. It is a videogame though so such questions sometimes just don’t matter 
.
It might be fun to have this in the map but it definitely shouldn’t alert the grunts. Not a crap idea.
idea for replacing the arching electric bolts in the loop, replace them with a malfunctioning crane that’s swinging its magnet over the track. (can be explained by a corps in the control area)