Long Jump and Jumping Puzzles

Black Mesa Archive Suggestion Box
#1

Cman2k Recently made a post about Jumping Puzzles in the Got a Question Thread, and it prompted an idea concerning the improvement of the Jumping mechanic, more specifically the Long Jump (or Crouch-Jump) Mechanic.

Said Post:

Said Idea:

One thing that Metroid Prime did for its jumping puzzles was to force the camera down slightly when Samus jumped, thus providing a better viewpoint for landing without the player even noticing. (the only reason I noticed was because some reviewer mentioned it).

Obviously as this is a PC FPS, the player can look down themselves, but perhaps you can change the FOV when Gordon long jumps to sort of mimic an adrenaline rush. The view would become slightly more fish-eye so the landing spot becomes at least partially visible even if the player isn’t looking directly at it. This also would show the player that they have indeed accomplished the long jump, as the effect wouldn’t happen on a regular jump. If you really wanted to take it to the extreme, you could even mute the sound a little while gordon is in the air and add a heartbeat or harsh breathing noise.

In Summation, the suggestion consists of the following key elements:

-The fish-eye-esque FOV increase upon the successful initiation of the crouch-jump
Gameplay advantages:
-The Player receives an indication that they have successfully initiated the long jump
-The Player is able to see his target landing location with greater ease
Cosmetic Advantages:
-Hightens tension at a moment in gameplay where tension is desirable

-The muting of external sound effects (such as enemy fire) accompanied by a sound effect such as harsh breathing or heartbeat.
Cosmetic Advantages:
-Same as above, with enhancements

Just in case anyone is confused about what an increase in FOV actually means, here are some demonstration pics:
FOV 75 (default FOV), FOV 90

As some people prefer a higher FOV, the effect could perhaps apply a standard number of FOV steps, such as 15. So if the player enjoys playing Source games with FOV 90, the effect would temporarily increase the FOV to, say, 105.

#2

Wow, this is one of the most well thought out suggestions I’ve seen made in a while here. Unfortunately that’s not really saying much. With a better understanding of what the suggestion is, I am changing my prediction to it being classified as a 1A

I don’t recall my line of site changing when jumping while I played Metroid Prime, but I also only played it for the Wii, not the gamecube. My gut reaction is that this is only a feature in the gamecube versions. This makes sense to me since it’s very easy to look down using the wii remote or mouse, but not as easy with dual analog. Were this implemented in Black Mesa, I think most people, myself included, would have particular issues with being able to aim while jumping at the same time. This could be addressed simply by making sure that the reticule also moved so that even when a jump forced you to look down, your aim wouldn’t be thrown off, but that might throw people off even more.

In order to make this useful, and not just annoying, then the devs would need to do 3 things;

  1. Make it enough of a change to actually make a difference
  2. Make it not TOO much change that it bothers people
  3. Make sure it doesn’t throw off anyone’s aim
    the amount of personal preference that this is affected by is the most debilitating factor. The devs would need to spend massive man hours in order to get things tweaked properly and it ultimately boils down to an issue of “why fix what isn’t broken?”
#3

I do like the fact that when you jump, the camera should jolt down a little bit.

I actually think this would be very nice, and would fit in with all the other camera techniques that are being used.

#4

Keep in mind the the Crouch Jump is not something the player is expected to do willy-nilly. The purpose of this kind of jump is to leap long distances, which implies risk of injury or death.

Of course the amount of FOV applied, among other things, would of course need to be playtested. But in my view it wouldn’t be that difficult to come up with a number. Basically just enough difference to give the player the slightest advantage during the jump without disorienting them completely. It should have no effect on the ability to aim etc, even though if you were jumping 25 feet through the air in real life I don’t think you’d be all that concerned with aiming, ha.

The effect preferably would not be instantaneous, rather the FOV would expand gradually over the course of approx .5 seconds or so. I have no idea if source is capable of doing this… its just the vision I have in my head for the effect.

And as for claiming that the devs don’t have time to implement something like this… they have freed themselves of a public deadline, so for all we know they have all the time in the world, haha.

As for fixing something that isn’t broken… Gameplay improvements are just that: Improvements. You wouldn’t call Half Life’s gameplay broken, but you couldn’t call it perfect either. :smiley: :wink:

Edit: Also I’m not suggesting that the camera be forced in any way to go any particular direction upon jumping. Thats more of a console FPS kind of thing, as the controls are not as… flexible. I am merely using it as an example of how camera changes can be implemented successfully to enchance gameplay. The FOV effect would be “external”, aka it would effect the player’s view of the environment, it would not effect the player himself.

#5

Options to increase and decrease/turn off and on could be good.

#6

I really like the idea to implement a special sound when long jumping.

A mechanical or «under pressure gas release» sound would make sense since Gordon is assisted by a machine. Wind whistling would be good too just for the intensity of the moment and to add to emphasize speed of the jump.

Would it get annoying though? The fight with «The Big Mama» is way easier with the jump but constantly hearing the jumping sound could get repetitive.

#7

Added stuff about FOV to the OP.

SO MANY ABBREVIATIONS! :fffuuu:

Sound repetition is easily resolved by either

a) running the sound effect though a program to change its pitch and timbre

b) recording multiple sound effects that are almost the same but not quite

#8

As long as the sound isn’t LOUD then a small hydrolic piston type noise wouldn’t be unacceptable, provided it was only for long jumps and not for regular jumps. Then again, the long jump module is apparently worn on the back, so rather than pistons it probably should use a jet blast noise or something. Though it might just be a battery pack that provides additional power to the assisted movement of the legs… in which case I’d go back to the piston noise.

I’d still like to believe that the devs are still trying to get it out asap. Also your statement assumes they EVER felt bound by the public deadline, which I don’t really think was the case, that’s just what they were shooting for. As a result, if they were turning stuff down due to time constraints, then things will still get turned down due to time constraints.

The question is if this would actually BE an improvement or not. There are a lot of people who feel that iron sights would be an improvement, but that doesn’t mean it should be in Black Mesa. This might just be me, but I’m fairly certain that a majority of the goal is not just to improve Half Life, but to make it consistent with the rest of the half life series.
Though if you’re talking about making this a feature that only occurs when you use the long jump module,(my original argument had been based on the idea that this would occur during regular jumps as well) then that might not be too bad. That feature was never used in the rest of the Half Life series, so there’s more leeway to that. Having the fov expand during long jumps doesn’t sound too difficult to implement (comparatively), wouldn’t feel inconsistent with HL2 or the episodes, and would actually probably help you spot your landing better while remaining overt.
I’d actually be a little surprised if this wasn’t already implemented.

#9

I’m happy with the FOV changes. Really, it’d be great. And maybe a “whoosh” sound too, but not very loud, or it’d get repetitive.

#10

I heartily support this idea and/or suggestion.

#11

This is actually a good suggestion. Although the whole ‘fov and screen effect change to let the player know they successfully long jumped’ thing seems a bit redundant, as it was usually easy to tell you successfully long jumped since you were flying through the air. do like it, but please, no screen effects. I’m fine with the FOV change, though.

#12

I rarely miss long jumps due to not being able to see the landing. I also use the long jump constantly as a quicker alternative to regular movement. To me it’s either going only be useful for it’s aesthetic value, or it’ll hinder my jumping ability. It’s an interesting idea, but I don’t think it’s right for everyone.

#13

Thank you Raminator :3 we love you!

#14

Portal high momentum effects?

#15

the OP is refering to the long jump module right? cause I beleive that already had sound and effects in the original.

unless he’s referring to the crouch jump, in which case I most whole heartedly disagree to all points including sound effects.

#16

I approve.
Fling yourself. Fling into s- Weeeee.

Only had sounds in DM.

#17

I am I the only one long jumps silently? The only sound I remember is the power up when you first strap on the module.

#18

There is a fundamental difference between a crouch-jump and a long-jump (crouch+jump).

The OP and Ram are both talking about the long jump, despite the OP sometimes referring to it as a “crouch-jump” and quoting me where I am in fact referring to the crouch-jump.

The crouch-jump is where you jump and then crouch, magically lifting up your legs and letting you fit into a smaller space while you are in the air. The necessity for crouch-jumping is not being removed from the game.

The long jump has been reviewed, tweaked and revamped quite a bit. We want it to be intuitive and easier to control. We have already tried most of the stuff suggested here, but we aren’t set on what the final solution will be ourselves until after more playtesting.

#19

Ooh, the magic word.

#20

I had been itching to say that this whole thread. >.>

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.