Freedom of Speech

#1

Where do you think the line should be drawn under Freedom of Speech, or should we be completly free to say what we want, when we want?

A lot of people use “Freedom of Speech” as an excuse to incite hatred and hostility towards certain groups of people, sometimes you may find yourself offended and shocked at what certain people say but does that mean they shouldn’t be allowed to say it? For example in the UK we have a national party called the BNP, they are against gay couples expressing relations in public and think the majority of immigrants should not be allowed in our country because they are freeloaders, instead of allowing them to voice there opinion the public shout them down, boo and jeer, like some sort of medieval hanging trail, should the BNP not be free to say these things without being shouted down, or is shouting them down freedom of speech also?

Another group who have caused great controversy in our country, is Islam4UK, who have been talking about protesting at a remembrance march in a small village against how we “hero” worship our soldiers, is that freedom of speech or is that just inciting hate (If there is a difference)? And does this group have the right to say that if we can hold remembrance marches for soldiers who died in Iraq and Afghanistan, they should be allowed to have marches for those who carried out the 9/11 and 7/7 terror attacks on the UK and America?

And have there been things in the news recently, in your country, which have made you question freedom of speech or has it angered you at how people have reacted to their controversial views or opinions?

#2

Freedom of speech ends where it does damages to other equally important freedoms.

This is the case with every liberty provided to humans.

#3

amen!

Too much diarrhea of the mouth lately. “All we need is love!”

#4

Bullshit, that never happened. The only group that protests at Soldiers funerals is this nutbag Christianist church/cult, I forget what they are called. They aren’t protesting the war, just attention whoring.

#5

Those groups make peaceful loving Christians do a double facepalm

#6

sorry my bad on that one, im from england so i should have looked into that a little more before commenting on it, but that has never happened in the uk

EDIT

And would you consider what this christain group is doing as a fair excercise in free speech, or is it free speech gone mad?

#7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djfPZN8fygU

#8

There’s only one problem I see with that, being outside the Christian sphere:

I don’t see any sort of backlash against these groups. I don’t see campaigns against them.

To me, that is, quite unfortunately, seen as tacit approval of their actions.

I’m quite sure that the vast majority of Christians are not like these groups nor that they approve of what these groups do. I just don’t see the condemnation.

I am all for freedom of speech. In fact, I will defend these groups’ right to speak however they want. Inversely, however, that doesn’t mean that OTHERS do not have that right as well and you should be prepared for the consequences of hate speech if you’re going to make it.

I just don’t think our government should do it.

Here’s what I’d love to see. Everywhere the Phelpses of the world show up (at funerals, along the sides of roads, etc), Christians should mount a counter-protest which dwarfs the Phelps-like groups. After all, I’m quite sure that the numbers of Christians that are the antithesis of the Phelpses dwarfs the number of Phelpses so it shouldn’t be too hard to do so.

It would go a long way to help put mainstream Christianity in a better light to non-Christians. :slight_smile:

#9

Don’t apologize, correct your post. There’s an edit button for a reason.

If you’d ever read about those guys, you’d know that they are counter-protested almost everywhere they show up.

#10

Seriously DS, they are almost universally opposed. I mean, they think God’s punishing America for allowing gay people to live here. WTF?

@DD40: Right on. Took the words right out of my mouth.

#11

I know they’re counter-protested, but they’re not counter-protested enough. I want the number of counter-protesters to DWARF the Phelpses. …not just from gay groups (and others) but from mainstream Christians.

I want to see marches led by prominent clergy. I want to see ads on TV. I want interviews on all the news networks. I want it to EXPLICITLY known that the Christian world is anti-Phelps.

I guess it’s like the cliche: “I know you love me, but I want you to say it.”

#12

The problem is that no one writes articles about normal people who are doing the obvious thing, they just write articles about extremist dumbasses who are making fools of themselves and disgusting everyone.

#13

There’s no curing your juvenile anti-Christian bias, but google reveals this:

Fred Phelps of The Westboro Baptist Church will be picketing[…]Pastor Charlie Muller of Victory Christian Church, along with supporters from other local churches, students from the College of Saint Rose and from local high schools will hold a counter-protest.

#14

Oh yeah, I forgot. When they came to the town next to mine, there was a massive protest organized on facebook. I would have been there, but I had some conflict. :frowning:

#15

Then, and I’m sorry if this sound extreme, the “normal people” aren’t trying hard enough.

These extremists aren’t only making fools of themselves and disgusting everyone, but they’re also tarnishing the word “Christian”, running it through the mud…and, if I do say so, blaspheming.

The problem I have is that these extremists might not be as extreme as a “normal” Christian might believe. Why, just a few short years ago, 14 states outlawed homosexual intercourse. It would probably still be in effect today if the Supreme Court hadn’t intervened…

If you’re talking to me, I don’t have an anti-Christian bias.

Awesome. Good start. Let’s see a HECKUVA lot more of that.

#16

Merging double-post. Mea culpa.

#17

As to the OP - Westborough Baptist shenanigans (“god hates fags”) are absolutely protected speech. So are KKK marches. I’m not so much concerned about this type of hateful free expression - it’s limited in it’s audience and those who are opposed are equally free to express their opposition.

What worries me more is the lack of free speech in corporate media. Yes, technically, anyone can say anything they want on television (its a free country). But practically, the only views that get airplay are pro-corporate, pro-establisment views. Unlike public rallies, the opposition doesn’t get air time. The people don’t get a voice on network television, all we see are career politicians and Pentagon-approved military analysts. Moderated by substance-free talking heads. This is because any programming that’s seen as anti-establishment will quickly lose its advertisers (and their revenue) and get pulled from the air. Profit motive in News programming is the number one threat to free speech, IMHO.

#18

I wholeheartedly agree. However, the other thing that I think is a major problem on that front is the want to have “balance” where there is none.

I watched an anti-war protest on C-SPAN about three years ago. The anti-war protesters numbered in the tens of thousands and they filled the street.

They then cut to the counter-protestors (the “pro-war” people, I guess) and they numbered in the tens.

Later, I watched the news. They interviewed three anti-war protestors and three “pro-war” protestors. :what:

#19

The problem here arises in what you define as human rights. For example, do you have a right to feel at ease, or a right to not be offended? I know that those, particularly the last one, might sound ridiculous, but right now there’s a lot of drama going on in various college campuses in the US, and all of them center around the idea that you have the right to feel at ease in the workplace or in public, which can seriously infringe on other people’s right to freedom of speech.

#20

And that is a major problem. What offends one person might not offend another.

We just got out of a holiday season where some people are offended by the term “Merry Christmas” and others are offended by “Happy Holidays”.

I have a laundry list of things that personally offend me, but I know that each and every item on that list is inoffensive to someone else.

Legislating that sort of thing would be impossible. That’s why laws that attempt to clamp down on speech, even hate speech, usually fail.

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