"Fix it yourself"?

Wow, I don’t know if this is the place to put this, but I can’t think of anywhere else except maybe The Test Chamber.

Something I noticed about Black Mesa and complaints people have about the mod is the replies are rather rude. People say things along the lines of: “If you don’t like it, change it yourself!” (Which I personally have been told before, even after showing that I have been attempting to do just that)

I want to touch upon why this is stupid. I’ve said it once in a thread somewhere and I’ll say it again, just because a person can edit the files to whatever they want to doesn’t mean they should have to. Because then they are not playing the mod the way the developers intended. They are playing a mod of a mod. For example, let’s say I change the weapon damage of the MP5. I just modded Black Mesa. It is a small mod, but I am not playing the same thing everyone else is anymore. If I were to play Black Mesa deathmatch, I would have to use the default values instead of my own because I can’t play my mod with other people unless they have it as well. And not everyone does. Additionally, the jump height is something I have seen many people voice discontent with. If a large number of people say something is wrong, then it is wrong. They shouldn’t be told to manually patch the game themselves to fix it. Imagine if Valve did this. Let’s say Valve made a huge mistake with something in a game they made, and rather than fix it like they normally do, they just say (or they just let their fanboys say), “Fix it yourself!” See the problem?

Also, not everyone is very good at “fixing it themselves.” Some people have no idea where to find the files to edit, some people get overwhelmed by all the lines of code and are too afraid to change values in fear of breaking something, and others just plain out don’t know what to change the values to. I personally hate the jump height, but I don’t know what number to set the thing to in order to get my desired effect. And I don’t want to keep rebooting the game to test it in trial-and-error. The devs set up a game which by all accounts should be fun to play at install. Players shouldn’t be forced to open up the mod’s folder,look for a .txt file, and crunch numbers just to have a good time.

Now some of you may say, “Just press two buttons, noob!” The problem with that is it may not be comfortable for me. I personally can jump-crouch with no problem, but not everyone can. Some people just don’t have hands that flexible. Maybe they spend more time with consoles or other PC games instead of playing Half-Life. This leads into another issue which I will discuss later. Back on the topic of comfort however, some people just can’t position their hands that way quickly and comfortably. While they can change the controls to something easier to press, it won’t be comfortable crouching anymore. You are leaving players with three choices: break their hand, play with awful controls just to make a jump, or stop playing Black Mesa altogether. Option three is something nobody should want, because then why did anyone make the game? What was the point of spending all those years if only a select few are allowed to play? Another argument is “Crouch-hopping was in Half-Life!” So was bunny-hopping. Also, crouch-jumping wasn’t in Half-Life as much as it is in Black Mesa. I should not have to make Gordon pull his legs up to his chest just to make him hop over an ankle-high wall. It is also rather annoying to get through a difficult firefight and then die immediately afterwards because I botched a crouch-jump. Maybe I don’t want to quicksave every five seconds. Maybe I don’t want to quicksave every time I have to jump. But anyways, now to transition to the other topic I promised to discuss later.

Some people feel way too entitled over playing Half-Life. They are the ‘true-gamers’ and others outside the bubble are absolute scum. If someone doesn’t play Half-Life, they are dirt. If someone plays on consoles, they are dirt. What does it matter? If anything, the community should be happy others are trying Black Mesa. Console players are saying, “Hey! This game looks neat! I want to try it!” They are so eager to try it they temporarily leave their platform of choice to play a mod they may know nothing about. And so what if they don’t know? Let them try the game and enjoy it, that way they can know. I’ve seen Black Mesa community members get so angry at X-Box Let’s Players because they are trying Black Mesa. Why the anger? Black Mesa is attracting new people to the Half-Life fandom, and as these people who have little-to-no experience play the mod and get interested, they will learn what Half-Life is. But the responses they receive only prompt them to say: “Welp, I’m not doing this again. I’m sticking to X-Box.” Nobody was born knowing everything about Half-Life and its mods. I still remember when I first heard of the series. But after playing the games I became so hooked that I tried to learn everything I could. And part of what made me like Valve was their updates. If something was wrong they would fix it. Nowadays it’s debatable whether they succeed or not but at least they try.

I’ll stand firm in the belief that there is nothing wrong with making a few adjustments to suit one’s personal tastes. The devs cannot please everyone, but my belief is that they should try to please as many people as they can. Some mods (NOT Black Mesa, thankfully) have developers with sticks shoved so far up their asses that they believe that their way to make a game is the only way to make a game. Whether there are bugs or annoyances galore, anything else is for “stupid COD kids.” Even if the suggested feature has nothing to do with Call of Duty at all. Trust me, I’ve seen it. Additionally, some people get so incredibly hostile (you’ve seen it yourselves during the Valvetime leak in regards to the .357) over something as simple as iron sights. Iron sights for crying out loud! And even developers will bash the shit out of the person suggesting the feature and rant over Call of Duty. Call of Duty did not even invent the iron sight mechanic, and in some ways iron sights can be traced back to Doom. The weapon was always in the center of the screen, and there was no crosshair, players aimed with the gun itself. Yet someone suggests iron sights and they get flammed to high hell over being a COD fag or something.

Last thing I’m going to say is that not everything can be fixed by players. At least, not without a buttload of work. The hitboxes in Black Mesa are absolute shit. I’m not going to sugarcoat it. When I shoot at the Vortigaunts in Apprehension before fighting the Black Ops there are tubes wrapped around pieces of wood. Even though the geometry is shaped like an ‘I’, the hitbox is a big square. So my crossbow round gets caught in the air as if it hit a wall. And this happens multiple times, wasting my ammo. Not okay. The Humvees have a shitty hitbox. The entire space above the hood to the roof is considered a wall. That is a large space that can even be hopped onto in Surface Tension on the dam. I can float in the air because of that box problem, which is actually a bounding box issue. Also, in Surface Tension there is a turret hiding in a truck before the armory event. By all means the player should be able to shoot the turret through the tarp, yet the tarp is made of steel somehow. This forces the player to expose themselves to the turret’s gun in order to attack it. The tarp could have been similar to the Combine force-field in Half-Life 2 in which the player couldn’t pass through it but bullets could. While these issues can be fixed by a player, they would have to get three or four different programs (some of which cost money, so much for a ‘free’ modification) in order to decompile the model, edit the boxes, and then recompile. And that’s assuming the programs don’t crash. I cannot fix these issues myself because every compiling tool I find crashes when I try to use it. So in this case “fix it yourself” isn’t even possible.

In conclusion, Black Mesa is not perfect. There are problems. These problems need to be fixed officially, rather than by the players. I am sick of seeing this come up over and over again, and would rather have a topic to link to rather than having to type it out every time someone tells me or some other person this. Also, give people a break! Not everyone uses a computer as much as you do, and that is okay. At least they are interested in Black Mesa enough to give PC Gaming a go. Don’t make them regret that decision.

EDIT: Hooray! My first wall of text!

I can definitely see your point but I think the devs themselves aren’t really (atleast they aren’t as they were before the release).

Black Mesa has always been more than just a recreation (or remake, though technically, It’s far more than that), many of the devs here are thinking about future careers in gaming (imagine having ‘‘I was one of the devs from BM mod’’ in your resumé) so its one of the reasons why they tend to be so close to the development, so they can get more credit, that’s not something bad however, but it’s something that can annoy the community, for example the TextFAMGuy1’s maps, which are important to people here, but at the same time, the devs might not use them.

I agree, however with how the community treats itself, the whole ‘‘fix it yourself’’ is kinda relative, considering how not everyone wants to spend time outside the game to PLAY the game and the way everyone reacts to a issue that might not seem important to them is wierd, as good feedback is important.

But the devs should not listen to everyone, because it’s the internet, people are just random, nobody will always cooperate to making something better, most of the time it’s just people butthurt because something different might be on something they expect and this community is no different.

I do think the devs aren’t just making Xen, that’s for sure, oh and it won’t take eight fucking years!

One thing I want to note about the truck tarp is that is impossible to fix without signifigant code overhaul. The trucks are props, and with the Source engine, only one material is able to be used per prop. So if you have something with fleshy and metal parts, either all of it is flesh or all of it is metal. There is no in-between because Valve didn’t program it that way. About the only exception in BM that I can think of is the ability of bullets to ricochet off Alien Grunt models if you shoot them in the metal parts.

The only Source game to successfully put multiple material types on a model was “Sin Episodes: Emergence.” That game had soldiers who wore vets and helmets that could stop bullets. But again, this isn’t an “easy” fix.

It took you 3 huge paragraphs to communicate that you don’t like the crouch-jumping, 2 generalizing and 1 detailing actual problems.

  1. I think I recall Joel Nielson stating in an interview that they’re going to be accommodating people that can’t grasp the concept of crouch jumping.

I don’t see how pushing the two buttons your index and pinky fingers are most likely resting on is so hard, though. Especially considering a large amount of the target audience crouchjumps on instinct, anyway.

  1. Your generalizations have nothing directly to do with Black Mesa.

  2. Yeah, these are issues, but reporting them to the bug tracker would do lots to help.

I have to say, I find it silly that your main issue is that Black Mesa isn’t perfect. Duh.

They could have the tarp and truck as separate models, or simply make the current model non-solid and create invisible barriers around the truck. Neither one is perfect, but it helps. I see your point, though. Source does have it’s limits and not many seem to understand them.

[COLOR=‘Red’]I have moved the thread to a more appropriate section.

Well, the crouch-jumping was just an example off the top of my head.

Really? Great! I hope to see it. Like I said, I personally don’t have a problem with the mechanic (even if I feel it is overused in Black Mesa) but I know people who do.

‘Most likely’ being the key words. And isn’t saying that “-a large amount of the target audience crouchjumps on instinct-” a generalization as well? Furthermore, I don’t see how crouchjumping is so hard either. I really don’t. But from what I’ve see both on this forum and from letting friends and family play the mod is that for some reason they can’t get the jumps down. So something needs to be done, and if what Joel Nielson says is true (I’m sure it is) then this should no longer be an issue in the future.

My bad. Sorry.

Funnily enough, there was this one hilarious bug I was going to report, but I lost the save! :fffuuu: Here’s a hint: It involves trams, elevators, and instant death.

My main issue is actually that Black Mesa isn’t perfect, yet users are so defensive that they won’t tolerate criticism or suggestions of how to fix the issues. Not everyone is like this, but plenty are.

It seemed like the best fit for me at the time. For some reason I don’t think it fits in The Cafeteria or The Test Chamber. It might, but probably not. Thankfully danielsangeo moved it.

EDIT:Woah, one of the people had their post removed. The mods have their reasons.

I deleted the post. It referenced something that is no longer relevant (namely, the placing of the post in the other section). Just trying to keep things tidy and on-topic for this section. Back to the topic at hand.

I’m gonna go ahead and state now that this post is based from my experience.

I see your point, here. But people tend to map actions based on how often they use the action and how comfortable they are. I’ve never heard of a key configuration in which the crouch button (one of the most used actions) is so far away from (or position relative to) the jump button (even more used) that it becomes difficult to press both simultaneously. I personally have used a bunch of configuration. WASD, ESDF, Arrows keys, keypad, even some weird stuff I tried out. The only configuration I’ve tried that would give people trouble is KPEnter for jump and KPPLUS was crouch.

Okay, you got me there. But from my experience most players don’t have a problem with it. I’d say it’s just that the people who do are simply more vocal than those that don’t (more a theory than a generalization, but to each his own).

I can understand this. But can you give an example? I don’t think the MP5 damage example you gave is really valid because that’s messing with how the game was intended to be played. Making games more comfortable to play is one thing (view roll or control setups, for instance), but now we’re talking about modifying the way the game’s been balanced.

There’s already 3 difficulty options. If none of them suit the way one wants to play then it is on them to fix it themselves, because it is just a quick little number swap, and it can be done in game.

but what if it turns into a bigger complaint?
like what if more people pretty much agree on it being bad?
that’s his point on the MP5 (which I don’t agree by the way)

The view roll you mentioned is an example. But that is more of a checkbox solution than something to fix.

I would say roughly half of the mod’s issues are balance related, such as the itchyyosaur dieing in a couple of shots (making them much less of a threat) or marines being so dang aware of the player’s presence. In fact, if you look closely then you can see the marines actually start shooting before they can finish turning around. Bullets are flying out of the gun sideways.

As for non-balance related issues, I think I’ve talked to death about the jumping already.

Here’s that interview I mentioned with Joel (link to relevant question), by the way.

The crouch-jump makes it fun imo, those who complain must be playing on a gamepad or something. But I admit, perhaps this might be problematic in Deathmatch, depends on how high fences are set.

Another thing to keep in mind, would anyone really want a hundred hours spent on ‘fixing’ or ‘tweaking’ something that is at best a visual hiccup that has nothing to do with the play ability or immersion of the game? (And I am saying this in general, not specifying anything suggested in the OP) There is a fine balance between “cost and benefit” when dealing with game creation, sometimes things are put into perspective and you really start to properly gauge “how important is it really to xyz the abc.”

Is this thread created because Dadster got banned?

Dude, crouch jumping is even easier on a controller.

I have never had a problem with crouch jumping in a source game ever. …Although that’s because I map crouch to F instead of ctrl, because it’s much easier to reach and my index finger is generally doing nothing anyways. And that’s me fixing it myself.

I don’t have a problem with crouch-jumping, but I would like to see at least an option to get the HL2 movement/jumping mechanics back.

I don’t understand the hate towards crouch jumping. Black Mesa is a recreation of Half-life. Half-life had crouch jumping. Half-life INVENTED crouch jumping. Therefore, Black Mesa has crouch jumping. It’s not that hard to stretch from Ctrl to the Spacebar, and people who claim that they cannot do it should probably not be playing PC games at all. I’d even call crouch jumping a base mechanic of the game. Half-life was part shooter and part platformer. If you take out crouch jumping, you are not really remaking Half-life anymore.

Hate??!?!?!?

You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back and do kindergarten again.

The only shooters I have are Half Life games and now Bioshock Infinite. I have been crouch jumping since 1999 very regularly with no problems until I got BMS. After wading through all of the flame throwers I found some posts that actually help. Xalener was one and I forget the name of the other other real person. I will happily upload what works for me if anyone is interested. Thank you for the help.
Before that I spent hours failing to make jumps. This screenie was my only memory of BMS for quite some time. I spent hours seeing if I could hit that chopper as a way to keep myself motivated to keep playing BMS. I did hit it three times!
On topic, maybe there could be a toggle for easy and hard crouch jumping. A setting that keeps teenagers challenged and one for old geezers like me should be easy to do.

Woah, that came out of nowhere…

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.