Charity, yay or nay?

[Bolteh]

@danielsangeo

Right. Because EVERYONE that is in need of charity got THEMSELVES into that situation. And it’s their own dumb fault.

:brow:

No, not everyone, don’t be silly. But how do you know that someone wasn’t the cause of his or her problems? How do you know that you’re not helping someone who lost everything through gambling or alcohol or drugs or just plain idiocy?

How will Sassyrobot know that I’m that inconsiderate bastard that posted on this forum 10 years ago and that I lost all my money and possessions because I threw it all away on cheap beer and hookers?

And if she finds out later that I was “that guy”, wouldn’t she feel bad that she helped me?

@Codgin

If someone in your family close to you passed on, a loved one, a child? And you had a complete mental breakdown that resulted in you getting thrown out into the street, is that your fault?

Ehm, yes? My grandfather passed away after a long struggle (see Christian thread) I was sad, I had lost not only a grandfather, but a dear friend. I cried and I wasn’t happy. Yet I still appeared at work the days before and after the funeral. I didn’t sob there, nobody knew my grandfather had passed away until I turned in the papers for the day’s leave for the funeral. I still miss him now, but I’m not letting my life go to waste because of it.

[danielsangeo]

@Bolteh

No, not everyone, don’t be silly. But how do you know that someone wasn’t the cause of his or her problems? How do you know that you’re not helping someone who lost everything through gambling or alcohol or drugs or just plain idiocy?

How will Sassyrobot know that I’m that inconsiderate bastard that posted on this forum 10 years ago and that I lost all my money and possessions because I threw it all away on cheap beer and hookers?

If you’re willing to change your life around, why shouldn’t you get help, even if you fucked up a lot in the past?

[Bolteh]

There’s no such thing as a second chance in nature.

Bed time now, night!

[chumchum]

Bolteh,
What’s your stance on donations that, rather than fund relief efforts to people in distant nations you care very little for, but instead for charities that finance research, such as say (if you’re in the UK for instance) the British Heart Foundation or Cancer Research UK.
Donating to such associations would help all of humanity including your loved ones (and your most beloved self) because they may fall victim to say, cancer or heart disease just as much as anyone else, and would also benefit.
Also these have proven quite efficient, for example, a great many strides have been achieved thanks to Cancer Research UK’s research (in great part funded by donations).

After thinking about it I’ve realised that I tend to donate more for research than aid, oh and I’m sorry if you’ve answered this already, but I’m not going to go wading through ten pages of garbage.

EDIT:
Damn it, he went to sleep before I could get an answer >.<

[_rot_fodder]

I hope you choke on your pillow.

[danielsangeo]

@Bolteh

There’s no such thing as a second chance in nature.

Hogwash.

You’re just trying to bullshit rationalize your sociopathy.

[Soup]

@Bolteh

Getting rid of malaria may be a big thing to those that take part in that specific charity, but as I said before, it doesn’t tackle any of the other issues those people have. There’ll still be AIDS, murders, plunders, cholera, poverty, just plain old bad location (like Haiti). Whoopdedoo, malaria is gone, so what? The country’s still in a poor shape and the people there just have one thing less to worry about amongst a sea of potentially fatal stuff.

What planet are you on? It’s a charity to prevent deaths from malaria, not a magical charity of universal contentment.

It’s more “Whoopdedoo, malaria’s gone, now there won’t be thousands of deaths because of it.”

[danielsangeo]

Soup: B-b-but, charities don’t work if they solve one problem and others still exist!

[Cup_o_Joe]

@Bolteh

Sure, those things may have improved our lives, but I don’t consider those as acts of charity. What use would radio communication be if Tesla had kept it to himself? How does radio communication make the lives of our poor African brethren so much better now?

Well, because of Radio, they know when to expect good or bad weather, they can phone a friend or a loved one through the radiowaves (cellphones, communication radios), win money on radio contests, know when the next shipment of food will arrive, be educated through the radio, learn advice from professional farmers, etc. etc. etc. And as for the nuke, if Einstein wouldn’t have made it, someone in Japan, Germany or Russia would have made it. War is war, it’s always ugly. Einstein discovered nuclear power and wanted to use it for generating alternative current through out the world.

[Deutscher_Scharfschu]

Will to power is the only solution to human problems, once order and stability is established in a region, such as West & Central Africa, you can finally begin to solve the health and economical issues there. look at Botswana, the diamond industry stepped in and place a government there, now people get free AIDS treatment and have jobs, that country is probably the least corrupt in Africa. The government sees that the more people out of work, the less money they get, so they pay for multiple health programs to help their workers. Economic stimulation is the only proven way to improve the quality of life for long periods of time. Some charities do good work, but like Bolteh said, it’s a band-aid. I agree with him in that aspect, but i don’t think that means that these people shouldn’t be helped.

I take a firm stance on not trusting the vast majority of charities, i think that if you want to change the world, their has to me economic incentive for the business world. Pouring money into supplies will only ensure that the issue will not be solved, rather treated indefinitely. The trick to getting stable governments and economies is convincing the warlords and ethnic chiefs (i’m still talking about Africa) that their on selfish desires would be more so filled with a strong economy and a stable-less aggressive government.
The United States has done this for decades, but it usually involves a dictator who pushes people to far, and inspires a revolution. (I.E. Iran and the Shah playing ball with Western Oil)

My point being is that any long term solution requires money. For instance, the reason WWIII hasn’t happened yet is because every country owes another country money, since we are all interconnected now, If we went to war, that money won’t be paid back.

[danielsangeo]

Deutscher: I think both need to be done, to be honest. Charity is there to stave off the immediate concerns but it’s not meant for the long term.

[Deutscher_Scharfschu]

Yes, and I understand that, but the vast majority of people who just drop 5 dollars in a box at McDonald’s don’t.

[danielsangeo]

There are also people that claim to “support the troops”…by buying a bumper sticker.

[Bolteh]

@Soup

What planet are you on? It’s a charity to prevent deaths from malaria, not a magical charity of universal contentment.

It’s more “Whoopdedoo, malaria’s gone, now there won’t be thousands of deaths because of it.”

What’s the point of preventing malaria if they’ll still die from any of the other fatal conditions that lurk around every corner over there? If you’re on a sinking ship that has 10 holes in it, and you manage to patch up 1 hole, will you cheer and go “yay we fixed it!”? What about those 9 other holes? The ship is still sinking.

[Soup]

Hurp a fucking durp, the point is so people won’t die from malaria. Also, that’s like saying “What does it matter that I shot him? He was choking to death anyway.”

[Mr.Shadow]

@Bolteh

What’s the point of preventing malaria if they’ll still die from any of the other fatal conditions that lurk around every corner over there? If you’re on a sinking ship that has 10 holes in it, and you manage to patch up 1 hole, will you cheer and go “yay we fixed it!”? What about those 9 other holes? The ship is still sinking.

The point is to stop peopel from dying. Okay, it won’t really stop but they won’t die as fast, and kids will have a bigger chance of growing up.

[Bolteh]

Well no, because then I would be a murderer. Now I’m just selfish and apathetic, but I still abide laws and rules.

[Mr.Shadow]

@Bolteh

Well no, because then I would be a murderer. Now I’m just indirectly killing, but I still abide laws and rules.

[Bolteh]

Meh.

So are people that smoke, so are people that drive cars, so are people that eat meat, so are people that work in weapon factories, and so on.

You must feel unsafe, living in a world filled with indirect murderers.

[JamestheDoc]

If it weren’t for charity (The March of Dimes), we wouldn’t have found a viable vaccine for poliomyelitis, a disease you younger folks probably don’t know much about (outside of history class) because you’ve not had to suffer from it. If you ever needed proof charity actually works or contributes, read up on your Polio Pandemic.

If it weren’t for charity we wouldn’t have a lot of the medicines and immunity we take for granted. Charity funds a lot of that stuff.

Aside from vaccines though, charity for the poor and the homeless helps boost productivity in the long-term (if you want to look at money). Homeless get food and shelter, poor kids get an education, go to school, contribute to society and economy through their career path, and so on. If it weren’t for charities supporting poor families like my own, I doubt I’d ever have considered myself a candidate for medical school.

If we went with our lizard brains and took care of only ourselves, the world would be a hellish place. It’s consideration for one another as a species that has helped us reach this point in our evolution. And to go back on that is to de-evolve in a way.

I donate to charities (even though I’ve never had much to give), and volunteer for the free clinic here that is supported by charity. And it’s that hands-on volunteer work with my fellow humans that really helps me understand and appreciate the importance of charity.

If we just left those in need or suffering to themselves, what good is that doing our human race? If we can’t educate and make healthy our species to ensure optimal survival and continuation of life, why the hell consider ourselves a part of the collective?

I support charity.