BMS vs HL1 and misinterpretation

Black Mesa Archive The Cafeteria
#1

Basically I wanted to post this up… Not sure if it deserves it’s own thread.

Basically you can look back at Half life 1 as much as you like through rose tinted glasses but the reality is it looks and plays like crap compared to BMS.

Even though BMS has some small balance issues and bugs this will get fixed up soon.

But what I wanted to say most of all is when people myself included talk about what they miss from the original game that has been cut is that we would have loved to see them recreate this with the vision they gave us with this MOD.

So in some ways the devs may take this sort of stuff as negative but it’s actually positive because people want to see it recreated the way they have the whole 95% of HL1 not to mention expanding and improving on what was already there.

I want more and I have not finished it yet but nearly there now I don’t have a bad word to say on anything they expanded or redesigned

Please post here if you agree as I think sometimes people including myself use negative words like upset or disappointed for small nit picks or cut content or scenes when really all we want is to see them updated because we remembered them not that we are truly upset or disappointed.

And this MOD should not get bogged down by positives percieved as negative that is what I am trying to say

#2

The only major things I really especially dislike are the cut parts of Surface Tension and the ridiculous labyrinth that is the Lambda Core Coolant Tank 02.

I don’t know how practical it is to re-insert those areas though.

#3

Yeah, I hope the devs keep this in mind. Most of the negative comments stem from the fact that it’s awesome. Flaws in something awesome stick out way more than flaws in something mediocre.

But I guess they’re wise and mature enough to realize that.

#4

A lot of people moaned about on a rail… I think it was fine…But the Mood of that level is excellent

My thoughts on expanding that are quite simple… and it should only be a short expansion copy paste jobbie more or less.

After you talk to the security guard who sends you down the first lift put a new piece of track… t… And have some ducking under boxes and some ambush attacks to be honest keep it fairly linear get to a crossroads then have to go up… Have the send the satchel up in the lift sequence and then start the track from here that is in On a rail BMS first crossroads. It would be nice to have a section where you can get some speed up and maintain it essentially at least that is what I think.

dky.tehkingd.u I agree with you somewhat on surface tension just cleared that level last night. And it could do with some work on the GARG Sequence atleast. The Vent should not fall but they should after the machine gun fire peppered holes (change colour to white / blue) Have a section of the vent be destroyed by rocket or explosive for which when you go to this section to shoot back The Garg should smash through the door or wall melt the marines that shoot the vent… Giving you time to take it in. Then you drop down onto a car and leg it out of there!

Then when at the water tower… It would not hurt to have a couple of random HECU Squads of 3 show up to distract the GARG Away from the water tower making him harder to hit.

So Far as being trapped in the pipe by a Grunt this could be moved to earlier in the level when you come off the cliffs… I think too much to redesign the whole level.

I do not mind the absence of Jump Pads… But some more destroyed buildings would be welcome addition with the Agrunts and the SG but if that part is cut no big deal

Surface tension is already a very long level as it is

not got to the Lambda core yet :slight_smile:

#5

@OP
I dunno how you can say the original plays badly. I am replaying it right now on hard (the original not even hl :s ource) and it still plays great. It just plays differently than black mesa. It feels like you have to be a lot more sneaky in the original. There are a lot more areas where you can sneak up behind someone or take alternate routes. On A Rail is a perfect example of this. There are so many hidden passages and areas where you can sneak right under enemies feet or hide behind boxes etc. and ambush them. Tons of different passages and more than half of them are extra content and not the way out.

Black Mesa is a more streamlined game with today’s style of constantly moving forward and very little backtracking. It’s just a different style. People today don’t really explore levels in games anymore. Now it’s checkpoint, move forward, cut scene, checkpoint etc. You rarely see games with levels like doom, duke nukem3D and so on where you had to explore entire levels.

As for the feedback I agree. People complain about things because they want to help improve the mod. 90% of it is from people that really love the mod.

#6

That nostalgia crap again. Straw man argument of the century.

It doesn’t. The gameplay in HL1 was furiously better, various events were done better gameplay wise. The cuts were uncalled for and make areas worse, and the overall feeling is inferior to the original.

“Oh no your point is invalid because it isn’t”. Well, no. HL1 felt better, played better. It just didn’t look better, but its still the superior game. Yes, we say it out of love for BMS, but that doesn’t mean HL1 wasn’t better.

And that is the FPS sin of the century. Its not a different style, its dumbing down and making things more shallow.

#7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRf9fhj-2BA it occurs around 3: 30 am i wrong?

but i agree that one part in surface tension felt very non-linear in my opinion
there was a sense of freedom when i found out i could maneuver around the area through those rock crawl spaces; so many ways to approach the chopper, tentacle and minefields
speaking of which, i miss the choppers hunting you down too

but in BMS it was reduced into 2 paths

#8

I actually saw a jump pad next to the water tower. and it works.

As for On a Rail. I did enjoy that level too, just the amount of exploration is fun to me. I would make it longer if I could.

#9

SFJake, what you’re saying is opinion, so It’s no more correct than what OP said. You did not speak a single fact in that whole thing it was just angry personal opinion.

#10

I don’t what is the superior game, since it’s kinda unfair for both sides

#11

You just did the same exact thing, just as badly as OP.

@OP I don’t think one is superior to the other. Each have excellent and annoying things about them.

#12

Wait… I haven’t played HL1 in a while. I started replaying it, but then BM beat me to it. So I played BM instead. Which parts of Surface Tension did they cut?

#13

People tend to complain when they don’t get exactly what they want. That’s just life.

They cut the part where you have to escort a security guard and they shortened some other areas, in the end it really isn’t all that much.

#14

The escort is not really necesary, most of it is there, only without the escort (no one loves escorting).
The tentacle part and the jump pad part are somewhat iconic, I would say part of the experience. If they can put that parts (or better…let the community do it) cool. If they don’t do it, eventually someone is going to do it. Decompiling or having the original maps.

The problem with Surface Tension is that is the longest level…it’s too tempting to cut…

On a Rail is great as it is, but there are three or four things extra that would not do any damage if they are put again (the level has almost no memorable moments).

I like BM better, but it’s not complete yet…

#15

community map contest…

#16

I would never say Black Mesa is perfect but I believe that if you drop the thought of Half-Life 1 and stop nitpicking the imperfections you can enjoy it for what it is. There are a lot of bugs but the whole reason for the bug-fix thread is to crush them all, this mod will be around forever and once its completely done maybe the spare time will go into adding to the game and expanding on the missing parts. I just have fun with what i have for the time being because its amazing that it is free.

#17

To me, Black Mesa and HL1 are the same game in most respects. HL1 is better in some respects and BM is better in other respects. To me, they’re both equally good and I love them both to death.

There are some issues with BM (notably the garg at the water tower and how easy it is to get stuck in the environment) but then again, there are some issues with HL1 as well (such as in OaR, you could simply avoid the rocket launcher grunt by pushing forward on the tram, crouching, and then roll up right next to him and basically take him out with the crowbar, or the ungodly stupid physics with the crate pushing; I’ve died so many times in the laser room near the satellite delivery rocket because the crates suddenly and violently jumped up the stairs and broke the line and set off the dynamite, I’ve lost count).

Either way, I love both games equally. Can’t wait for BM’s Xen. :smiley:

#18

Did BM cut out a few parts from Half-Life? Yes.
Are they ones I can live without? Pretty much.

I’m certain I’m going to be very happy with Xen once they’re through with it.

#19

neither is an “upgrade” or “downgrade” to the other

they’re very different, yet similar

#20

Except you’re also missing the iconic scene of a Marine tossing a satchel charge in the pipe you’re crawling through and shuts the hatch. Plus, the whole section with climbing the roof of said building is actually one of the more memorable bits. That, and it cuts out still more fights between the Marines and the Xen aliens.

Far as I’m concerned, even if you ignore Half-Life entirely, Black Mesa still has problems. Gameplay balance can use a LOT of work, and the story needs to emphasise the military less and the aliens more. The transition between total military supremacy and “we are pulling out and commencing airstrikes” needs to be given much better context so as it doesn’t come out of nowhere. As well, the pressing need to shut down the Xen portal or else “there might not be a home to go back to” also needs to be set up. People claim that it’s because “infinite aliens” but nowhere in the game is it suggested that this might be the case. For all we see, the Military should have been fully capable of containing that invasion, if only it weren’t for Gordon Freeman who single-handedly pushed them back.

Black Mesa doesn’t do a good enough job of storytelling through the environment, and thus the story it tries to tell comes off very different from what it actually is, and really doesn’t flow very well if you don’t know what it’s saying from already having played Half-Life before.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.