Two things to keep in mind about BM, that for some reason people seem to miss.
One, developers of a mod (for more than 7 years) recreating the entire original Half Life are themselves very devoted Half Life fans.
Two, (in general) developing a mod (even a whole lot smaller one) on your spare time for years is not a process which is uncorrelated with the fan base of the mod. In fact, the fan base is sometimes the only/main reason you keep on working on and improving your work, after the initial enthusiasm has faded out.
To see a mod, which is a complete game, achieve the high quality standards that BM has, is unprecedented in the modding community as far as I know (and I have been involved in the modding scene)
So it is sad that in the end petty grudges or thought process of “screw the positive feedback, I want to be objective (and controversial) !!11one” are considered the correct ways to comment on the work of these developers.
Ehm, HECUs in HL1 sounded like coordinated, machine-like group of army specialists. Heck even the dreaded ‘only. say. one. word. at. a. time.’ lent to the proverbial ‘military precision’ badassery.
In BM, they sound… a bit anxious and insecure bunch of hired guns, for a lack of the better characterization?
HL used ‘SEMPER. FI. MOTHER. FUCKER.’ stereotype - BM resorted to ‘young b-movie merc thug’ stereotype.
I happen to strongly favor the former as it was one of my fondest memories of HL.
I’ll just say it felt inappropriate to chose a direction like this for HECUs. Sure, a good idea when on paper - I could even get behind it - but in the end it felt like simply swapping one character stereotype for another.
It’s clearly the dev’s decision though and they have every right to stick to it.
Yeah, no doubt about the voice actors doing great work. VA direction, however - is an entirely different thing.
I still insist that it was a part of the charm. And as I’m currently working on compiling my own phrases from original HECU voices - I can responsibly assure that the sounds are very clear.
But as stated above - it’s not the quality or production values that I object against - it is rather the direction that was taken.
I actually kind of like one or 2 of the HECU’s line delivery, like when they say “WERE GONNA KICK-YOUR-ASS” but for the most part I agree, it was really inappropriate, and sometimes they would say something and it would sound like a bad Christian Bale batman impression.
I actually think the medics have better sounding voices then the gruff ones. They aren’t as deep-voiced and still aren’t as good as the HL1 voices, but the line delivery is better then the “gruff” guys.
Plus sometimes it’s just bad, like “I killed 12 dumbass scientists today, and not one of em fought back!” sounded like he was saying that while someone rammed a drill up his ass.
@metalmunki
I will admit it was a good moment to educate people on the Allies. There are admittedly times when I forget that I’ve been playing Half-Life games for literally over a decade now and that not everyone understands that. I personally feel that the Barney scene of him shooting the zombies when you ascend that elevator to be enough. At least there was a purpose though, so I will give it that.
@GordonReturns
I have a feeling you might be in the 75% and I really appreciate the sentiment. Thank you.
@Conti
I should have mentioned it in the review but the Ambient noises WERE quite good. I rarely ever thought about them which is pretty much spot on for how ambience should be designed.
I also can’t say enough that I fully believe the VA talent did their absolute best, but that they weren’t quite provided with the direction needed. Black Mesa should either have been a recreation where stilted and silly dialogue would be nostalgic, or a true re-imagining where they could really have had fun with the vocals and busted out the talent I know for a fact their VA team has.
@stormseeker
That Bee/Portal bug really threw me for a loop. I almost launched myself off the rotating platform down into the shaft in confusion. There were a few other ugs, largely involving skipping sections with barrel towers which I wasn’t sure if was supposed to be allowed or not. It was as if grabbing objects was added as an afterthought. In the end barrel hops let me bypass enemy encounters as their spawns would not trigger.
Refusing to use the Tram in on a rail appears to have a similar effect where certain things just don’t appear to happen.
Thanks for the kind words. Most of my anger I portrayed was partially because I still liked watching VT videos and the review left me baffled, especially since it was given a recommendation, when the review didn’t actually provide much reason as to why you would recommend it after all the bad points you had mentioned, and that the whole review seemed like it was based on more disappointment from expectation to be an exact HL1 in source rather then taking the mod at face value. I do fanboy a lot for certain things, but I usually have a good reason for reacting in a fanboy way when I do.
I believe that there were more bad points brought out than good points, I spent a good 10 hours on the MOD and i have well more good things to say then bad, they focused on the bad, if this review lasted for another 10 minutes explaining all the good things and then the bad maybe we wouldnt believe this is such a biased review. You guys put little effort into saying a good word. They are a MOD team separated by oceans, borders and yet they managed to pull off such an amazing experience with no funding!
I’m going to pass out shortly so if anyone has more questions I’ll try to get to them in the morning, things seem to have slowed down though, so might not be an issue. Goodnight to all, and thank you for watching the review even if you didn’t like it, and I hope you’ll trust me when I say that the discussion so far has been far more entertaining, interesting, and educating than most I’ve had for a long time. Hopefully, we over at Valvetime will take things we learn here to improve going forward. At least I will anyway.
@Bloodshot
You clearly care, so no need to thank me. =]
As for the recommendation and review. Black Mesa absolutely deserves to be played, but it is good enough to deserve to be judged as I would any other game, is how I took our review. When you remake a game such as Half-Life there is an inherent bar you are trying to reach. Black Mesa in trying to replicate the quality and success of Half-Life 1 merely left me, personally, with the desire to play the real thing. I’m not an ardent die hard fan of the original either. One of the best games I have played? Yes. But it is not impossible for a recreation to have properly scratched that itch. I felt in the end that alterations from the existing game where detrimental, while parts that stayed true to the original were excellent. I was going to ramble on more, but that is the angle from which we reviewed Black Mesa, and angle that we felt is set by the very fact that it is what it is.
James, I honestly want to point out that I greatly appreciate the well thought and rounded answers you have been providing to my community members. It means a lot to us and I thank you again.
That’s pure demagogy - no one has tried to undermine the tremendous achievement. It is fairly pointless to raise a point as to whether it is an achievement or not since it is self-explanatory.
Bout that time to pass out here as well. I say if you don’t like what the devs did with this, go play Half-Life: Source…the other alternative to playing the original with the source engine. Or play the original. I will always have my GOTY copy of HL in my desk just for those days of looking back at what started it all.
You are right I admit that I just would have liked to see some more good points raised in the video to make it less harsh. I agree with a few points in the video because they are true il never lie and say the mod is perfect because it isnt and nothing ever is perfect. A review is to show an overall experience not to show all the flaws and little of the good in my honest opinion! Sorry its late and im kind of throwing things out there without really thinking them over I am no longer posting in this thread because it just seems pointless to continue!
Everyone has been remarkably kind in dealing with the dissenting voice and I really, really appreciate it. I know how everyone here has acted won’t be replicated everywhere. The youtube comments section in particular is… interesting.
Thanks to you and Conti for allowing me to stick around and talk about my personal experience with Black Mesa and the VT review, and if this is still has any thing to answer tomorrow I look forward to any continuing conversations.
This review does brings up some very good points. Of course, it also brings up a bunch of stuff that I don’t really agree with, such as 2 dimensional characters. I thought the main characters had plenty of depth, and the random side characters didn’t need any (and then even they got some character development at times, like the guy talking about Barney’s bar tap, or the guy making the Predator reference).
From what I have seen from the reaction to this (and some others) review, especially from youtube, it seems that any time someone says anything bad about the game they seem to get instantly flamed, followed by the conspiracy theories being rolled out, such as them having an agenda or just being mad because the game wasn’t like CoD, or something…anything. I very much enjoyed the mod but there are definitely some problems with the mod, such as the voice work, the bugs, and a few other things. For everything I found myself agreeing with in the video, I found myself disagreeing with something too.
I can understand the performance issues people are having. My experience of Black Mesa was perfect. The odd bug here and there, but no crashes (the game has literally never crashed for me) but I know someone who is having nothing but constant crashes. I hope these performance issues get fixed pronto, because they really can be a showstopper at times.
I found this a little bit, but mostly the music was solid. It worked great ~90% of the time, so I can’t really complain. There was once or twice where I got the most intense elevator music ever, but other than that it worked wonderfully
I think the way to make the music work better would be to set up a system similar to the one that was used for the garg battle in ST, where it played a small loop of soft buildup until you got outside, THEN triggered the heavy stuff. That could have been used amazingly well in chapters like We’ve Got Hostiles, or Questionable Ethics.
TL;DR Black Mesa is far from perfect, but this review seemed at best a little unfair
So, I’m back. I had an account here for ages, but then the data crash happened, and I never bothered to renew. But, very long time lurker and reader, but now, first time poster.
I just finished playing through the mod. I have to say, it was way better than I was expecting.
The Valvetime review did have a few things that i agree with, which I will list.
Crashes to desktop - Happened at least five or six times in random areas, and I’m on a good computer. No idea what’s happening, but was annoyed.
the crowbar - Introduced a bit later than I wanted. I liked the flares sequence, but then you guys didn’t do much with them beyond the initial sequence. I wanted a bit more. I think the crowbar should have been added maybe a tad earlier.
The Crowbar animation was good, but could have been better.
Other random bugs were somewhat frustrating, but I can’t remember some of them off the top of my head.
Sometimes the music was WAY too loud.
Sometimes, it was hard to see where you had to go. Now, I’ve played HL1 many times, but even then, I wasn’t 100% sure in a few areas (like Lambda core reactors, it was a bit confusing at first). In all honesty, this was MUCH more realistic, since it would be a complex area, but just a smidge derdly.
Some of the weapons didn’t feel as useful. The 357 Ironsight wasn’t useful, the MP5 didn’t have enough recoil, and the crowbar animation.
Now, with that out of the way, what I loved.
Your environmental artistry was fantastic. Prop placement, level design, texturing, modeling, voice acting, animation, etc. All of the technical work was excellent. As in, better than Valve, almost. Everything felt right. I can tell you guys did a lot of sample work looking at real source images, since nothing felt out of place. You created a believable world, and I tip my hate to you on that. I want your textures and models for my own use, in all honesty, but in a way I don’t because I won’t be able to do justice to your quality of work. You have given me incentive to improve my creation of believability in architecture and propping, though. Love it.
The story progressed the way Half Life did, and the action was where it was before. It progressed the same while removing some of the annoying crap HL1 had that didn’t need to be there. Thank you very much.
The characters were believable, I thought. I wasn’t expecting Hollywood acting, and the stuff those actors put into their characters was very good. I wished the soldiers were a bit more endearing, though. I’d have no trouble murdering them, but I also expect them to be human.
Overall, BMS is one of the best games I’ve played thusfar, nevermind mods. It brought back a lot of good memories, even though you had a few flaws. You’re definitely up there in my favourites, and i’ll give it a reply for sure. I gave the original Half Life a 98/100 for my personal score; Zelda OoT was 96. The rest of the Half Life series was definitely a 94. I’d give you guys a 92. It was superb. The 8 year wait didn’t matter. Love was going into this. Time. Detail. I work in Hammer a lot casually, and I know how long it takes to produce basic things, nevermind masterpieces. The wait was part of the experience. Would I have loved for it to come out five years ago? Sure, but then it would not have been this.
Overall, thank you for making this. This is how I’ve imagined HL in my mind, and you’ve made it feel right and made it a legitimate thing. Thank you very much for producing something of excellent quality.
Some legitimate negative observations in the review…yeah, there’s an agenda (which seems mysterious to someone, like me, who doesn’t know the backstory of the conflict between the two communities and is too aloof to investigate) but I don’t feel strongly about it.
While I’m here, I give Black Mesa perfect marks. As an AAA game (in some strange alternate universe?) I’d only be slightly harsher. As a free modification with a budget of ‘zero-dollars-and-lots-of-love-and-time’, it’s not only a classic, but also faintly inspiring. This will be played for a long time.
You were ready to bad-mouth Black Mesa before it had even been released. Admitting to it doesn’t change the fact that you have a very clear bias in this situation, fuelled by some embarrassingly petty grudge.
Please stop this. This utterly transparent faux-praise for the visuals so that you can appear to be remaining level-headed and objective, and which quite obviously stages your frankly meek, painfully condescending “it’s pretty but everything else is terrible” argument is really becoming tiresome.
I think it’s quite clear how that discussion went and am completely unsurprised that you stick to your guns. You’re getting the reaction you’d hoped for, after all. Controversy for controversy’s sake, and in the end it will only reflect poorly on you.
Note: I’m not defending Black Mesa here - I have my fair share of legitimate complaints. I’m attacking the piss-poor review from attention-seeking writers whose sole intention was to provoke their readers and the Devs, who they’ve clearly not forgiven for hurting their feelings, rather than actually reviewing the game.
That’s all I have to say on the matter, and I hardly expect you to accept what I’ve said, but I don’t think you’re fooling anyone.
I agree with the score (none of the hl games would score high these days), but you’d have thought if they played it the jumping would have been mentioned (and the wrong walkers crisp packets for time). Whoever did the chuckle brothers mug gets a A+ tho .
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
