OK, so you try to undermine my arguments by deliberatly ignoring figurative speech. How very mature of you.
All right, I’ll break down Gödels Theorem for you:
For any set of discovered mathematical operations, there are problems you can not solve following those rules. Or more simply put: You can not find answers to everything, the answers to some questions will always be out of our reach.
What do you mean by “reason” in the first sentence? “Reason” as in the tradition of thinking or “a reason for something”. Because if it’s the latter, people believe things because they think it’s right, because something has happened to them, something compells them to think it’s right. You state that science is right [so often] and religion is wrong. Most religious belief systems involve things that simply elude the possibility of being proven or disproven. How can something that CAN’T be proven right or wron BE wrong? It can be silly, preposterous or or just unlikely. At the end of the day, you can’t prove or disprove the existance of (a) god. Also, faith and religion are two very distinct things.
Wait, she flies now? Trying to horn in on the FSM’s territory, huh?
As for Gödel’s Theorem, if there is a mathematical equation that is unsolvable (at least for now), then put that down as your answer. Putting down “42” as your answer (because it’s better to have a pat answer than no answer at all?) and then attacking people because they say that it’s wrong leads to religious fundamentalism and extremism.
No, there was a ridiculous amount of “Ask a …” threads, most of which were pretty stupid, so someone (Garcian, I think) deleted all of them except the Christian one.
Yeah but religions sooner or later come up with rules, rituals, institutions and people who interpret scripture and decide what’s wrong or right. That is one of the reasons why I don’t call myself a religious person even though I believe in God.
If we were purely logical, there would be no humour, no love, no compassion in this world (no hatred and violence, either, for that matter). There is more to life than pure logic and reason. Falling in love makes no sense whatsover yet people are doing it.
Well, sociology is focusing on societies, who are made up of individual beings which are complex organisms made up of the sum of chemical compunds and reactions. Chemistry is nothing but applied physics and the laws of physics we can grasp with mathematics.
Also, so far everything I’ve envountered can be described by mathematical means. From the way swarms of birds behave to gambling. Math is the one key science.
Interesting. The bottom line of this is “Since it can not proven to be incorrect, it is thus proven to be incorrect”?
Assuming we are talking about a religion that hasn’t been constructed to keep a sociological order in place, religion stems from the experiences of people, from what they feel. Yes, some people are nutjobs and feel stupid things, but if you want to tell everyone who happens to feels that there is something greater than him/her that what they are feeling is not there, you are nothing but being cynical.
That’s pretty moon-brained. What has this to do with anything? That is not an argument at all.
To me, the Bible is a story book. It is Harry Potter. It is Lord of the Rings. It is Star Wars.
Each of these story books try to teach lessons or illustrate historical or current events.
And, that is fine and very good. However, to me, that there was someone that supposed rose from the dead is in the same realm as flicking a stick and saying a faux-Latin phrase to make things float.
It is losing the forest for the trees to concentrate on simple events on the Bible and amplifying THAT until there’s nothing left. I see the war between religions as the war between whether Han Solo or Greedo shot first.
Christian: My hope is that you come to the realization of the truth. Your only salvation is accepting God’s grace through Jesus. Proof? The Bible, scientifically identified human blood in Eucharistic Miracles which is still unclotted since the 8th century, the Shroud of Turin, the complexity of the Tilma of Our Lady of Guadeloupe (look it up), Lourdes France… Oh and Summa Theologica. The Church is still here since Jesus’ commission to his apostles, The Universe is too beautiful and too complex and too perfect to be for no reason and by no one.
Atheist: I’m prideful of being ignorant. I will ignore what you say because I only believe in human knowledge of the physical world. I will ignore any scientifically proven miracle and call it a coincidence or an anomaly until it overwhelms me.
In short, unless you believe in our religion you will not be “saved.”
We have proof based on nothing but circular logic.
This is highly ironical and can easily be reversed:
Religious believer: I’m prideful of being ignorant. I will ignore what you say because I only believe in traditions describing the supernatural world. I will ignore any scientific proof that contradicts my religion and call it a coincidence or an anomaly until it overwhelms me.
Written over a thousand years after the death of Jesus and no evidence for us to test is provided therein. It makes claims. That’s it.
So is Zoroastrianism.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It isn’t that complex and it certainly isn’t perfect. But, let me get this straight. Since you don’t understand it, it must be God?
Sorry, but which atheist is that stupid? We are simply asking for evidence. You say we will ignore scientifically proven miracles? Provide them. Statues weeping blood have already been scientifically proven as frauds and hoaxes. So, provide your evidence.
I suggest you read this, this is a part of my faith. I wouldn’t be a good Christian if I wouldn’t care about what other people would be doing.
“The Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth.”
If the apostles would have listened to “religion is personal don’t talk about it” like it says in that video, Christianity would never have spread throughout the world and they would have betrayed Jesus when Jesus said “go baptize all nations in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.”
I am Catholic and I have the responsibility to bare my Cross and follow him.
Jesus said: “Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.”
Cup o Joe: You just revealed exactly what many atheists talk about: Discontinuity and contradictions in the supposedly “perfect” Bible. First Jesus is not supposed to quarrel, teach without resentment and to be kind…then he’s to drive a wedge and VIOLENTLY separate families if they won’t follow him.
(Jesus also says to not preach the gospel to people that don’t want to hear it. Matthew 10:14, Mark 6:7, Luke 9:5)
Who ever said it’s violent? The sword is metaphorical, it’s a split between people, between Believers and non believers. Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity, we’re supposed to live humbly, live first for God, 2nd everyone else, and 3rd and lastly ourselves. Look at Paul, he did a lot for God and everyone else. He ordained one of the first bishops, Timothy. Paul gave him the power from the Holy Spirit to ordain presbyters (priests).
And you’re right about not preaching to those who aren’t ready to hear it, it says in Timothy two:
“Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.”
So I will stop doing this internet debating because all it is is quarreling about words. From now on on this forum I will not talk about Catholicism.
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