I like how you group us all together, I could say all religous people are assholes who will cause massacres at the drop of the pope’s hat, and that they are savage cavemen who we must purge.
And I like how you imply “I’m right and you’re wrong” if that’s going to be your mentality get out of the debate area since that’s not how debate works.
I believe there were a few people calling atheists a bunch of angsty teenagers that want to rebel against religion. Also look at my quote above.
The only times I act out of reasonable bounds in these debates are when I’m insulted or the person I’m debating with makes claims that I find dangerous/very offensive. I think I’m allowed that.
Well you kind of unquoted on how it happens for me. But I did say that even though I try to ignore it when I’m told I’m going to hell for whatever reason it may be (usually in my case, having a boyfriend (Bisexual), wearing shirts with inverted crosses, pentagrams, even Pagan symbols and lettering, and even the fact I have long hair) Sometimes when these “soapbox evangelists” are out there for 3 maybe 4 days out of the week, I can lose my temper.
So my point being, poke and prod anyone enough and the greater chances are, they will eventually retaliate. This goes either way. I’m not really for debate when I’m walking to class and when I can be told I will suffer for my own nature 2+ times a day. It’s going to happen. The roles can be reversed and it may be the Christian, Catholic, Mormon…ect that’s the one dealing with the Godless Heathen telling them everything they believe is a lie day after day.
And we don’t feel justified, saying that is just putting words in my mouth. Some might, and honestly, I have no idea why they would. You can’t really single out Atheists when it’s only some that feel justified.
We can also throw that question back and say "Why do some Christians, Catholics, religious et al feel justified in judging others when their own Holy Book teaches lessons of ‘For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. [John 3:11]’ and ‘Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; [Luke 6:37]’
You cannot stop others from being militant in their views, all you can do is be the one who is civil and let your example lead others. I cannot answer for other Atheists just as Christians cannot judge me as if they were God.
You don’t fly in atheistic circles, I take it. I’ve been compared to everything from Hitler and Stalin to the Devil himself. I’ve been called immoral, evil, and stupid. I’ve been called a liar. I’ve been called untrustworthy and siding with America’s enemies. I’ve been told that I hate religion, Christianity, and God. I’ve been told that I should leave my homeland. And that’s in one week.
In this thread? Other threads? Where?
Actually, it does. So-called “religious morality” is claimed to stem NOT from what is right or wrong…but from what their deity says is right and wrong…as if they are automatons following whatever their book says, whether they believe it or not, whether they agree with it or not…and this “religious morality” is used in the most immoral acts imaginable. But, it’s okay, because their deity says to do it, or something.
Because of this:
:brow: :what: 
But the bigger issue is, every other subject has much more strident, much more abhorrent behavior attributed to the criticism thereof, but the moment you criticize an argument used in the course of defending religion, you’re said to be “Bashing Religion”. And, frankly, I’m tired of it. We’ve had to put up with this crap for thousands of years. So, I do apologize if I say something that might be insulting. It’s FAR less than atheists have had to put up with over the years.
EDIT: By the way, before you dismiss the editorial with a handwave, let me tell you this: Atheists see letters like this and then see tacit acceptance from the Christian community. They see Christians approving of this abhorrent behavior. This kind of thing should be akin to asking black people to move to the back of the bus. There should be a groundswell from the Christian community against this type of thing. But, none is ever shown. I’m sure you’ll respond with something like “She’s not representative of all Christians”…I’m sorry, but when this kind of thing goes unanswered, it’s viewed as kind of representative of Christians.
do you believe that ozzy osbourne is the devil?
Ozzy is a old white guy who can’t enunciate due to years of substance abuse. He spent his earlier years playing a shock rocker. None of this makes him the Devil.
Marrying Sharon Arden, however…
@danielsangeo`s posted newspaper article:
Many people on this planet who really loathe the United States would absolutely LOVE to see atheists kicked out of America, because then the US would lose the majority of their best scientists, and other nations would welcome them with open arms, rapidly gaining technological advantage over the US, while the American Nation would fall behind farther and farther. Of course it is not as simple as that - and a deeply religious nation with such a strong military becoming dependant on other nations resources can only lead to one grim future full of war (as seen in today`s news), so we can only hope that the percentage of atheists in America will gradually increase, until it gains influence on foreign policy, making the US a far more peaceful country than ever.
Holy shit, that sucks dude.
I basically grew up in an area where almost everyone was either a)deist b) agnostic or c) atheist.
It was basically the accepted thing to not really go to church or talk about blasphemous things and of course as young teens we would all snigger about it, but later it grew more serious. I suddenly found that almost no one really believed in god, which was funny because almost everybody pretended that they did.
Now almost everyone my age +/- 10 years (some older) is a proud non-believer and I wonder about the future. If almost everyone I know is secular, how much longer can religion survive?
And then I discovered the fundies. :retard:
The point of this whole response though is that I have never been insulted for my (lack of a) belief system.
people might say “shh, you shouldn’t say that!” or “hey, that might offend someone!”, but its almost exclusively out of concern for others, not themselves.
I know some of them are well-meaning; that they are scared for me (“The most important thing you can do in your life right now is to ask to be saved”), however, how do you tell an otherwise-kindly old lady that I used to work with there is no Voldemort killing muggles and that she shouldn’t be scared for me? I simply don’t tell them anything and try to avoid the subject at all.
Even here in Seattle, I sometimes dread the subject of religion coming up in my workplace. Especially when people start talking about what church they’re going to. I clam up. I always fear that they’ll ask me which church I go to, which, then, I’ll have to say that I’m an atheist…which might cause a confrontation with people I otherwise love working with.
Online, however, I have a certain amount of anonymity so I am able to speak more freely, and am allowed to express my disgust and anger over my feeling that I have to keep mum that I don’t believe.
I think we can at least agree that the BMS devs are gods 
I’m quite lucky to live in England, as it’s one of the most secular countries around right now. I still get heckled sometimes, but I’d never be in a position where I’d dread to bring up my atheism. Unless I somehow found myself in the middle of a group of fundamentalist Catholics holding knives and such.
My parents were heavily catholic. My Atheism troubled them greatly, and led to a lot of conflict. Unfortunately, I’m not a personal that is all that high on morals, so a lot of my actions got attributed to me not believing in ‘da holy fader’ according to my grandpa. I admit that IF I was catholic, I would use it as an excuse to be a total dick. 
Forget the girlfriends birthday? It okay, she’s a Protestant. haha!
In all seriousness though when my parents were around they used to attribute everything I did they disagreed with to my godless beliefs. If they were alive to know I have a child out of wedlock who isn’t baptized I think they would kill themselves. Haha.
I think Belgium is pretty high up on that list too. The subject of religion rarely if ever comes up, and I’m pretty sure 80% or more of my friends are atheist or agnostic.
I never heard of such problems in germany and I never had those problems with intolerance, I think germans understand much more about religious freedom.
They let you believe what you want and have no problems with your choosen religion
I was once invited to a roleplaying group (Dark Eye pen & paper fantasy) who met at a local Christian student dormitory complex.
I don’t know what came over me, but when I was in the front hall, which was kind of a lobby with a person occupying a desk and supposedly keeping watch over who entered and who left, I seriously asked whether or not it was okay for me as an Atheist to enter.
The lady looked a bit confused first, but then smiled heartily and said: “Really, that’s not a problem. Everybody is welcome here as a guest, regardless of belief. Our policy is just that only Catholics can rent a room, so they can live among one another in this building. That’s all. Have a nice day!”
I was pleasantly surprised. Her welcoming me had felt genuine and not in the least faked. I wonder if the same could have happened to me in Bavaria. Or the USA.
I suppose I thought that the question quantified itself. By asking, “Why do atheists feel justified in doing this,” it seems that it kind of requires them to do it to feel justified in it.
With all due respect, let’s look at your reaction itself. I make what we could call a poorly worded comment about atheists, and like five people immediately take offense due to grouping people together. And yet…
Haven’t many of the atheists in this thread said things just like this? Maybe not the last part (though I’ve heard plenty of “the world will never get better until we get rid of religion!”) but certainly there seems to be a lot of the former. And yet I don’t remember seeing Catz or some of the other Christians jump in and claim that it’s offensive…though they’re probably pretty used to it.
I didn’t really get that impression from his post. 
Well, my point wasn’t that religions people are perfect - they’re not. My point was that I see a lot more atheists bashing religious people here than I see the opposite - and considering that he seems to be one atheist-basher against five or ten religion-bashers, I think I’m justified in that.
No, but your hate of that person would still influence your actions towards that person in some way, eh? Unless you had a good reason to, you certainly wouldn’t treat that person like someone you loved, no?
Every action is caused by a reason - and that reason is generally a belief. Every belief doesn’t lead to every action, but every action is caused by a belief, be it the simplest thing like opening a door because one believes that one can’t walk through solid matter, to something much more complex, like not killing someone because one believes that murder is wrong. Not to say that these are the SOLE motivators in these situations, but they’re there nonetheless.
's understandable, but does it make the situation better or worse? My point here is that, when atheists attack Christians like they are, they’re not proving anything or lending any credibility to their beliefs - all they’re doing is dragging themselves down into the same pit that Christians who attack others have put themselves into.
It seems as if some atheists - those who I’m referring to - seem more concerned with attacking religion than with anything else. It’s as if they claim that they’re atheists solely so that they can attack religion. You want to talk about being “holier-than-thou,” there it is, right there.
If those who claim these things don’t feel justified, then why do they do it? Doesn’t an action necessitate that someone feels - whether they’ll admit it or not - justified to do that action?
As I said earlier, I won’t defend these people. But while it seems that a lot of you have had vastly different experiences, from what I’ve seen from all over the internet and in everywhere I’ve gone, there seems to be a lot more atheists who do this than religious people. Neither are justified.
This thread and Eucharistic Shenanigans are the first two that come to mind. There’s random-odd posts regarding this in many other threads, too.
What? Religious morality and secular morality both come from a source - for a religious person, it’s his god, for a secular person, it’s nature (as in, natural rights.) Both are equally immutable…
I’m not sure I understand your “automatons” comment. If someone’s following something that they don’t believe is right, it’s not the fault of the thing they’re following that they’re in the wrong, as what justification do they have to follow it if they believe it’s wrong? If I am following a car and I see it drive off a cliff and think, “Wow, I shouldn’t do that,” is it the first driver’s fault that I went against what I thought and drove off the cliff anyways?
This doesn’t matter, though, because my point was that this particular situation didn’t warrant a clarification. It didn’t mean what the source of his morality was - but he clarified it anyways.
You’re tired of putting up with this crap, so you’re doing the exact same thing? If you hate this stuff so much, why in the world do you continue it? Why in the world don’t you hold yourselves to higher standards? Why are you acting in the exact same way of those who you are criticizing?
I think you’ll find that plenty of Christians criticize people like this, or those Westborough Baptist Church people. I’m with you, that I’d like to see a bigger backlash - but then again, I’d also like to see a backlash in the atheist community regarding the militant types.
The best, it seems, that most of you have been able to offer is that “they do it too.” And I’m sorry, but that isn’t good enough - not when you criticize them for behaving the way you yourselves are behaving.
I agree, that is why I do not side with them, but that doesn’t make me any less of an Atheist.
Once again, I agree, but both sides are guilty.
To quote you for an answer.
I’m not defending them either, I am only one person, I have told you why I can sometimes lash out out of temper and I hope you can see my reasons why, a reason why. But a reason to lost temper is not a justification.
And there might possibly be a reason you find more Atheists arguing their point, is because you disagree with it and it sticks with you. Same goes for the other side, as I and many people see ourselves as the minority on the internet and in the public.
Got held up at the airport after saying I was atheist. Coincidence? I think not.
Not to mention I live in front of 2 churches in a religious community.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. I’ll admit this post was probably further back than I’d expect you to go. It’s several pages back.
We are getting a little lose with the term belief here. I guess you could say I get up and walk because I believe I can/should, but that starts to become a little bit beyond the scope of what I was referencing. Also, I can be perfectly pleasant to people I hate. Often because I understand that it might not be justified or appropriate. I’ve learned to actually like people who I initially didn’t like in this way. I admit I’m pretty good at masking my true thoughts to someone about that someone. But I don’t think I’m special, or the best ever.
I’m a mix between Athiest and Agnostic. I would say I’m a true Athiest, I only disbelieve the unprovable.
I am more then willing to believe but I will not believe until I recieve PROOF! Nor do I understand anyone who chooses to be a slave to their religion, religion is a personal choice, having others dictate your faith to you just doesn’t make sense.
Religion was invented to explain the unexplainable and to keep the masses under control. If god did exist then why would he allow faith on his name be exploited by the ruling classes?
My only opinion on God existing is fi he does he looks at us like ants. He looks down on us and says “oh that’s neat” or “how did they do that” I don’t see how any higher being could exist and provide ZERO measureable proof in recent years… or in 2000 years come to think of it, hell the bible wasn’t even written during the events, it was written years later. Would you believe a criminal at a trial said “I couldn’t have killed that person because I was in the Swiss Alps skiing, here’s a book I wrote yesturday saying so.”
Blind belief isn’t just faith, it can also be stupidity. If I said I was a multi-milionaire would you believe me without proof?
That’s all I’m saying
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