It’s a legitimate question and a legitimate debate. It’s not a debate about religion.
That debate is: government and society based on religion or government and society based on rational principles?
Secular Humanism WANTS that debate. It seeks to convince the religious and the uninitiated that secular governments and societies work much better for EVERYONE than religious ones, and that Secular Humanism is not anti-religious, and does not exclude the religious.
People like Assassin that enter the debate are GREAT for Secular Humanism, because 2 things happen:
Assassin (God Bless him) argues for religion and gets his ass handed to him, making an impression upon an audience.
Assassin acts like a dickhead, making an impression on an audience.
In debate, people like Assassin will only ever convince other people like him, people who already share his views - but not only do they NOT convince the neutral, they have a negative impact upon them. People like him do more to steer opinions toward Secularism than the rhetoric of Secularists themselves. Let him talk.
Besides, it’s a public forum, he can say what he wants.
Don’t get hung up on the “evil” term too much, Phil. We must, as humanists, battle the “us vs them” mentality; we can’t simply ignore it or it will fester and metastasize.
We aren’t debating the religion itself but its role in humanity.
yes but these discussions happen more often than not and in threads like these, I’m just saying it is happening in the threads on abortion and ask a christian, and I do not want this thread to end up like them or at least not to the extent they have gone
For the record, I don’t self-describe as a Secular Humanist or anything else. I don’t know who else in the thread describe themselves with the term, the OP I assume, and you.
I probably should have left the comments to actual Secular Humanists, but I do know what it is and had my opinions about it and expressed those in my comments.
I like to express my little opinions, but I don’t pretend to be a committed or dedicated follower of Secular Humanism or any other social or political philosophy.
I probably should have left the comments to those that actually know what they’re talking about - but I have this compulsion to throw in my 2 cents in reaction to some comment or another. But this shouldn’t be taken by anyone as anything other than the face value of the comments, or taken to mean that I’m actually a Secular Humanist and have anything other than superficial knowledge of it.
But I always liked the idea, support it, and root for it like the fan that I am. Go Secularism!
Mkalavrishvili is not whole country. also minorities are treated normaly untill they ask something like: gay marriage.
genocide? subjugation? lot of people are muslims in georgia also about genocide you must be reffering to Abkhazia and Osetia. you are forgeting that my country is next to Russia which changes a lot but thats different theme. and half of caucasian nationalities live in georgia so please shut up and dont talk about my country in that tone.
fuck I care about what europe thinks about my country! we are assholes? Vlad von Drakula has done more for europe than any king living there while my country was holding all the invaders european countries were fighting between each other. you don’t know about my country and you you won’t know.
there were no dark ages in my country. if we dont consider that whole history is pretty dark.
I just dont understand the meaning of this sentence.
I think it is like bunch of monkeys crying in cage jumping runing and think that they rule but from the outside children laugh at them.
yes I know and I said that religious government shouldn’t work but it is impossible not to consider anything from bible.
struggle? stop. just stop that bullshit. relligion is the only reason my country still exists. Europe and Georgia were allways saparated from each other. every time we asked for help the response is only squeezed shit through history. europe always cared only for itself and it will be allways like that.
Muslims are less than 10% and have historically been hated and periodically expelled. They and other minorities are not considered ‘Georgian’.
I don’t see how Russia is responsible for the actions of Ethnic Georgians against minorities.
You mean:
Right, because it’s not fair present evidence that societies and governments based on religion commit atrocities and human rights violations against those outside that culture/religion.
By ‘holding the invanders’, you mean conquered by every invader that ever stepped foot into Georgia, right?
ahahahaha
ahahahaha Yes, that thread is clear evidence of your intellectual superiority and dominance over the sub-human inferiors.
Your country has existed since 1991, and the reason is Gorbachev. Georgia’s continued existence is ONLY through the grace of Russia. If Russia ever thought it was in the best interest of Russia to incorporate Georgia, they would do that at will, and there isn’t a God Damn thing Georgians could do about it except complain.
In 2008, the Georgian military retreated to Tblisi simply because the Russians crossed the Georgian border.
Russia decides if Georgia exists or not, and what shape it will have. Georgia has independent self-rule, but only because that’s what best serves Russia.
Western Democracy is shit? OK
Since Georgia has been independent, it hasn’t been able to produce a successful government - none of the governments have survived more than a few years. It’s only been a country for 20 years and still can’t rule itself successfully. ALL of it’s attempts at creating a stable government have failed so far, and you want to say that the Western Democracies are shit?
Creating a stable government is just the starting point of a country, and Georgia can’t even do that.
10% of 5M is not lot? you are retard man. also we have “few” reasons to hate Musilims
that I doubt you will understand and NO they are considered as georgians.
and you wont.sigh Abkhasia was inhabited by georgians and there were Apsuas (like osetians) who lived in Mountains. and Russia used his propaganda to make those people rebel 300k GEORGIANS were forced to leave home. that will be short story, and about “Southern Osetia” there is no Southern Osetia there is only samachablo. osetians were allowed to live here during Georgia was in SSSR and after we claimed independence there was same as in osetia. you dont know how it is to live under pressure of russia…
todays government is normal and stable and if you have lived here you would see the difference. it is easy for you to read wikipedia. an in my opinion WD is shit not because it is unstable or unsucsesfull becouse I dont think the Democracy is the best way to rule the country that out of context here anyway.
lol. yes reason is gorbachev wait did you know that Beria and Stalin were georgians? no of course. and yes there is Lot georgians can do agains russia and the fact that we lost that war doesnt changes the fact that russian army which is serveral (not 2 or 3) times bigger than georgian nearly lost that war but you dont know what happened and you will newer know.
were you interpreting the Biblie in this way? I am not even amazed. and than you call me stupid.
No, they’re not. And this is documented and agreed upon by the minorities, the UN, Amnesty International, and the US State Dept.
no, 10% is a vast minority. The total population of your entire country is about 4.6 million. My original city has more twice that population in it’s metropolitan area, and that just one city. Nothing about Georgia seems a ‘lot’ to me.
EXACTLY.
And by ‘we’, you mean ‘Georgians’
No, they’re considered Muslims. ‘Georgians’ are an ethnic group defined by their religion.
Russia didn’t pressure Georgia’s actions.
My understanding of Georgia and it’s recent history is from the extensive coverage of Georgia and it’s conflicts in the news. The US has many 24 hour news networks that need to to fill time, and the conflict with Russia saturated our news. We viewed that war in real time. And the reasons, causes, positions and relevant historical backgrounds were written and analyzed in some depth by every major news publication. And that wasn’t the only major event that the world followed in it’s news. The 2004 Revolution, and various incidents of human rights abuses were covered. These things are not secret or unknown.
Ah, I see, so Western Democracies are stable and successful, but they’re still shit because democracy is shit? Although it’s stable and successful?
And this is a point of pride for you?
no, there’s not.
That wasn’t even a small part of the Russian military.
Russia didn’t even come remotely close to losing that ‘war’.
The Georgian military retreated to Tblisi immediately upon the Russians crossing the border into Georgia. The Russians invaded and occupied Georgia effortlessly, then they got the ceasefire agreement that they wanted. Then they left. Georgia is now geographically and numerically smaller. And it only took a few days.
duuuuuuuuuuuuude you should stop writting I see that your brains starts malfunctioning
you were observing in real time and I was observing with my real EYE so shut the fuck up please. you know not my history not my country and still you continiue to talk bullshit.
I am not going to argue about this with you.
what has pride to do with that? you say bullshit about history which you don’t understand and will never understand.
georgians won war 30k vs 300k so I doubt half drunk junkie russian soliders can do lot here.
yeeees of course. just stop wanking.
georgians fought 5 days after Russians crossed the border and we made them retreat after that asshole sarkozi forced that treatment we retreated back so stop sucking shit.
Dudes give up. Every country is shit on the internet and every country will be defended on the internet. Internet will always find a way to show why your country sucks. Let’s continue the subject on humanism and not just Georgia.
My question: Why humanism and not some other ideology?
Your ignorance of this isn’t my problem. These organizations have documented and recognized human rights violations by Ethnic Georgians.
The scale of the total population might be subjective, but that a minority of 10% is not subjective - it’s 10%, that’s a vast minority. But I guess it’s still too many if you’re Georgian.
Muslims are NOT Ethnic Georgians. The Georgian culture is defined by their religion. This is what it is to be ‘Georgian’. You yourself have alluded to this in other posts when you mentioned that Georgians have survived as a people through numerous occupations in their history and the religion was the reason.
Nice comment, BTW. Didn’t have anything else to say about it, eh?
Right, I see you have nothing better to say about this either.
What you know and think about it is what you were told to know and think about it. You’re in Georgia. I’m not - my understanding of it isn’t through the same propaganda.
You said it as if you had some pride that Stalin was Georgian.
And seriously, dude, if you don’t understand that you live in fucking Georgia and everything you’ve EVER been taught about history is propaganda, then you need to pull your head out of your ass and look at where you are. I wouldn’t say that the USSR was artful with propaganda, but they were proficient and thorough.
If you take that to mean that I think that you’ve been miseducated - you are correct.
Georgia didn’t win that war, you batshit crazy, delusional mutherfucker.
You said so yourself in the last comment you made.
SEE:
Russia invaded, occupied, and forced a ceasefire agreement in which Georgia lost 2 partitions of it’s country to independent rule, and they did it in a few days.
Medvedev announced an end to military occupation of Georgia, and the Russians withdrew as per the agreement. This isn’t retreat.
And Sarkozy FORCED Georgia into agreeing to the ceasefire? Right, Georgia didn’t lose the war, Sarkozy ‘forced’ them into a ceasefire agreement.
“We won that war, but that tricky French bastard deceived us into this stupid ceasefire agreement - because he and Medvedev are gay lovers - you know how the French are.”
Yes, sorry, I didn’t mean to get caught up in a debate about that war. I don’t take sides in that war, and I certainly don’t support Russia’s actions as they are clearly a violation of international law.
None of that has anything to do with Secular Humanism really, except the cause of that war - the ethnic hatred among these Central Asian Ethno-religious groups which has gone on for 20 years all over Central Asia and the Balkans.
But then I got taken for a ride by the Georgia Pride Parade.
Are all ideologies mutually exclusive? I don’t think so. For instance, I admire Christ, Buddha and Gandhi and I try to learn and imitate their lessons of life, and I consider myself a humanist as well, those philosophies are not exclusive, they actually get along very well, and one helps you understand the other better. I still need to learn about all those things and that is why I’m here asking questions. So, I disagree with the idea that you choose humanism “over” other ideologies. I even disagree with the idea of following one particular religion, shouldn’t we be trying to learn from all of them?
I was just talking about Santa Claus on commentaries on a Youtube video:
Does anyone have more examples of traditions that disseminate discrimination?
I wouldn’t defend if he didn’t wrote lies about my country. I don’t say that I live in the best country in the world but my country isn’t that shit he is describing.
you see some crappy documents and I see what is going on here so STOP SUCKING SHIT.
4.6m/100X10=460k is this not lot? 460thousand people are lot enough for 4.6M population country.
there are Muslim georgians and I told you this several times but you still keep sucking shit. and being Georgian doesn’t mean being christian.
what shell I say? translate to you georgian history from 20th century and get some shitty response that you have read some shit in some documents? no thnx.
yes propaganda. the helicopters thet flew over my house was propaganda the Russians stealing TOILETS was propaganda the KILLED CITIZENS was propaganda. my closest friend was figting there and many my relatives were there as well and I know it better than you. so sut UP!
so you think that my history is propaganda? go suck shit.
that was another war you retard.
they were lost to russians a long before and it was allways russias plan. everything was going well and “South Osetia” was ready to join georgia again but then russians started “working” on that “Problem” and now as you see everything is “Fixed”.
oh belive me that was a BIG retreat. there are facts that you don’t know.
sarkozy forced to russia because they weren’t going to retreat when Casefire was announced from both sides.
Santa Claus is same Saint Nicolaus and that is the reason.
I’m no longer interested in reading your comments or responses. Perhaps other people are, but I’m not. So, don’t expect any further conversation with me.
It is beautiful that people from different countries like you and me can think alike. I exactly know what you are trying to say. Although I have never considered myself as a humanist before, I will read about it.
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