I’n my view? I think of it as trying to help humanity as much as each indevidual can before death. contributing nothing to society is rather pointless in my eyes. each person has their own rights and there is almost no limit to each indevidual’s value.
That is what I see in humanism
@daniel: his worry is that this thread becomes a discussion about religions and end up derailing like other threads. Let’s just not let this thread go that way, ok?
I am mainly speaking on the subject of humanity as a whole, not theism/atheism. But theism/atheism is a major part of humanity and to ignore it is to ignore a major piece of the puzzle.
Some people believe that religion contributes to society for the good. And that’s good. I have no problem with religion being the catalyst for good in society and change from the bad and I WANT MORE OF THAT.
I’m not trying to derail the thread; I’m trying to speak on topic.
Right, which is why I don’t like the frame ‘Secular Humanists vs Christians’, as if Humanists are an enemy seeking to subjugate Christians. We all have the same best interest, and the idea that we don’t is The Great Lie.
EDIT: Oh, and I don’t think the groups are mutually exclusive. One can be religious and be a Secular Humanist.
I think the Us vs Them frame is the antithesis of Humanism.
This isn’t really a supportable statement.
And I don’t think that it’s religion itself that causes the problems. I think that it is the social psychology. In terms of the structure of an organization, the theology itself is just organizational rhetoric. The same group of people could use a different organizational creed, such as nationalism, racism, etc, and it would still be the same organization with a different enemy.
well I was trying to just make a point that everyone, Including you and me all think that is the world were all one religion or nonreligion or cult or white or black or asian or all spoke english. we can all deny it but we all think that way sometimes
I don’t. I believe in our differences. Black, white, red, blue, male, female, Democrat, Republican, Tory, Liberal, Fascist, Green, theist, atheist, pantheist, polytheist, deist, creationist, evolutionist…we all have something to contribute.
Working in concert, we can do great things together. Division, however…
Woah! No, I don’t think that at all. That’s actually the opposite of what I think.
I think this encapsulates the kind of mentality that is the antithesis of humanism. It is reactionary remark symbolising fear of other human beings, based on unreasoned prejudice.
I think Zen’s explained the concept perfectly; Humanism is the opposite of the ‘Us vs Them’ idea. All humans are equal, to identify anyone else as ‘seperate’ or ‘different’ and therefore they are wrong based entirely upon the difference would be against humanist principles. To subject their actions and words to critical examination based upon humanity and reason, and rejecting them or their ideas or suggesting alterations would be humanist.
that is for you. as for me I explained it hundred times and you(of course) forgot about that.
and what should a Christian politician do? “oh I know that “this” is bad but I wont do it because it will be Christian and Christianity is bad!”
yes they suck but every type of government sucks. wanna know why? because humans suck. the people who believe in Christ hardly little do what Christianity requires not to say the government based on religion. clear example is Iran - country of morons in my opinion.
you wrote that yourself. they are using it just as an excuse if there was no religion there would have been another reason so religion has nothing to do with that.
Exactly, and there’s a long history of evidence to prove it. But you would have to have been educated in a country whose dominant people don’t define themselves as a ‘people’ through Christianity.
Hey, do you want to tell us about your minorities and how they’re treated by true Georgians. Or maybe the death squads? Mkalavishvili?
That’s bad thinking. It’s not necessarily true that there would be a different excuse to murder in the ACTUAL atrocities done in the name or cause of religion, or that those atrocities would have happened at all.
But the FACTS are that Christianity has a long history of atrocity. You can say it was ‘the people not the religion’, but that’s false - it was the religion. These things are by the authority of the church and justified by the texts, according to the theology of Christians. there , in reality, was no other explicit reason.
Your own country is a good example of a ‘people’ being defined by a religion and then attempting genocide, subjugation , or expulsion on any that are not the same culture and religion. Your church defines your culture. And look at Georgia - the world thinks your’e a bunch of ignorant, backward, genocidal assholes. But what you really are, is a group of Christians. Ethnic Georgians have close to 100% participation in the church. Your religion IS your culture.
I’ve rarely seen you give a straight or honest answer in any of these threads. And I’ve never seen you support any of your assertions effectively.
My way of thinking saved the West from the Dark Ages, your way of thinking IS the Dark Ages.
You don’t know dick about Christianity, and BTW, everytime I see your comments, I read them outloud in a Borat voice.
You should just aggregate all your posts into a new thread called “Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Georgia”
THIS IS WHAT I MEANT
CAn we please keep the discussion on humanism and not make it about some debate about religion please
Dead Phil: What should we do in response to people that seek to divide us and create an “us vs them” mentality?
That’s what was going to happen in a thread like this.
In the US, the term “Secular Humanism” is used as an epithet by Christians - it’s meant as an insult and said with a derisive sneer. Not all, but many Christians view secular humanism as the enemy.
The ‘Ask a Christian’ thread is, let’s face it, a bunch of non-Christians putting Christians on the spot. And that’s debate.
In this thread, Christians like Assassin get some pay back. They get to go on the offensive and you play defense this time.
Seriously, did you really think this thread was going to be a roundtable of actual substantive discussion of solutions or honest debate among among honest actors?
No, of course not. Secular Humanism seeks government and society based on rational principles. Conservative Christians seek power and control of government and society - they’re not just going to let you have it. And if you make a thread about Secular Humanism, Christians are gonna troll it.
Secular Humanism is a reaction to religious control of society and government. It’s THE central issue to Secular Humanism - hence the ‘secular’.
Does the phrase ‘Separation of Church and State’ not mean anything to you?
Religious principles have gradually been faded out of front-line politics, and frankly in my opinion that’s a good thing. Politics (in theory) should be regarding the general public of the country in question, and creating a solution that works for the benefit of the public. They should not be restricted by an ancient dogma of any religious organisation; i.e. secular humanism.
Take euthanasia for instance. It’s an increasingly hot topic in the UK. Typically it has come under fire from many religious groups, despite large sectors of the British public being in favour of it. Even the Director of Public Prosecutions has stopped prosecuting those whom assist their loved ones in getting to the Dignitas clinic in Switzerland, to no public outcry what-so-ever.
A fully-fledged religious government would have stamped down on that, as it goes against their doctrines, to the detriment of the publics interest and rights, which would have been wrong. However as Church and State have seperated over time, the government has not involved itself, and the rights and interests of the public have been protected.
Now on the flip side, the traditionally conservative Christian Republican party in the United States is (the last I heard, I admit I haven’t checked up on it recently) considering a bill making abortion illegal, which would be wrong, as it restricts the liberty and the interests of the general public.
Ergo, by looking at two points, we have some (I’ll admit not many; yet) examples of how the separation of church and state (a secular humanist idea) is for the benefit of man.
Assassin is in the country of Georgia. Just sayin’…
…then again, I just did research and the Georgian Constitution separates church and state as well. Sorry about that.
The government funds the church.
Georgia is a weird and interesting country. They seem to have a struggle between a progressive movement that seeks to modernize Georgia, but struggle against this very powerful culture which is defined by the church.
It seems that the focus of the conservative group is a pride in the very idea of ‘Georgian’, and they seek to perpetuate that Group and culture.
Progressives have attempted to overhaul the education system in the last decade, and convicted and jailed Mkalavishvili. They also have constitutional guarantees of Human rights for minority ethnic groups, but these seem to be ignored. Amnesty International, the UN, and the US State Dept recognize human rights violations by Georgia regarding ethnic and religious minorities (in Georgia these are the same, as the religion defines the ethnicity of “Georgian”). Their constitution seems to be mostly for show. “Hey look at us, World. We’re a modern nation now, no more genocide. See, human rights in our constitution. Yay” (Much like their self-reporting of 100% literacy, which gives them the highest literacy rate in the world. Much of the rest of the top ten is rounded out by neighboring Central Asian countries.) The government still funds The Church, despite the separate church and state. That constitution is not…strictly interpreted, and both the constitution and the government are not guaranteed to have a long lifespan. Georgia has only been independent since 1991 I think and goes through governments like water, so whatever advances the progressives have made to move Georgia in the direction of Western Democracy are not certain to live long, especially since many of the people would rather forgo Western freedoms and economic benefits in order to retain their religion/culture as Georgian.
I was predicting this would turn out like this, infact I stated it in my first/second comment
I’ll repeat my question:
Dead Phil: What should we do with those that seek to divide us and create an “us vs them” mentality?
Ignore them, thats what I always do, ignore them and try to avoid the religious debate that would otherwise happen
tl;dr: “The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.”
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.